Transcript - Sky News Afternoon Agenda - Interview with Ashleigh Gillon

ASHLEIGH GILLON, HOST: Joining us on this is the Communications Minister, Michelle Rowland. Michelle, really appreciate you making the time for us. Thank you for that. You're a Western Sydney MP. Firstly, just how worried are you about an increase in religious tensions in this part of Sydney?
 
MICHELLE ROWLAND, MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Well, firstly, of course, Western Sydney is a big and diverse place, and the attack that we've seen on a person in a place of worship is completely unacceptable. And coming off the back of Saturday's unfortunate, incident as well. There is a lot of tension, I think, within New South Wales and the broader community. My deepest sympathies go out to the family and friends of those who've been injured. and lost their lives in that incident. It is deeply distressing for all involved, and I'm sure all Australians thank our first responders and very brave civilians who have assisted in that.
 
But I want to reiterate, as the Premier has so clearly articulated, that we are a diverse – and proudly diverse – multi-faith, multicultural community. And that goes for all of Australia.
 
We can be assured that we have the best law-enforcement agencies in the world. We have a world-leading online safety regulator. We have cooperation between agencies, between the Federal Police and their State counterparts - all of them doing their jobs.  So, I want to reassure all Australians - irrespective of where they live, what their background or faith may be - that every facility is going into making sure that we keep Australians safe, and that we are so grateful for our first responders and the work they do, and we will continue to do our important work in this area.
 
GILLON: We heard on the program earlier from the eSafety Commissioner explaining that notices have been issued requesting social media companies take down images from both Saturday's Bondi attack and last night's church attack. Are you satisfied that they are cooperating and doing that? If not, at what point will you then step in with fines or other actions if those images do remain accessible?
 
ROWLAND: I reiterate the comments of the eSafety Commissioner. The Commissioner has a set of graduated powers and they are all being exercised. It is particularly concerning to see the amount of class one material that has been circulating since Saturday, and continues to circulate. That is material that would otherwise be refused classification in Australia because it depicts particular violence and is widely considered unacceptable for consumption.
 
But the eSafety Commissioner has also made it clear that they have had cooperation from a majority of the platforms, and the engagement that eSafety has with law-enforcement agencies and the platforms is a critical part of the regulatory framework. I fully support, and the Government fully supports, the eSafety Commissioner exercising their powers in this area to issue notices to X, and if they haven't already, to issue notices to Meta and any other platform that does not undertake compliance with such directions.
 
It is vitally important, considering the speed and scale of the spread of this information, that eSafety as an independent regulator conducts its task.
Now, there are a set, as I said, of graduated powers here. There are also potentially fines in this area.
 
I would point out for your viewers that we are in the process now, even though the Online Safety Act has only been in operation for two years, [of reviewing the Act]. We have seen so many new and emerging harms, and unfortunately, incidences like we've seen yesterday, on Saturday, and in October last year, where these kinds of images are shared online at speed and scale. It is highly distressing for Australians to be viewing that including, incidentally, children.
 
So, part of our Review includes the penalty scheme. It includes the whole gamut of powers that are available to eSafety because we know that these new and emerging harms and existing harms will continue.
 
And this is not a set-and-forget exercise. We need to ensure that our laws are fit-for-purpose. I wish to assure all Australians that eSafety, as an independent, world-leading regulator is doing its job, and will continue to do so.
 
I met with the AFP this afternoon where we touched on this very issue. Since Saturday, I've been engaged with eSafety, who stood up very quickly a taskforce to deal with these matters. I spoke to the eSafety Commissioner this morning, who highlighted the potential for these notices to be issued, and they certainly have been. So, Australians should be reassured that the regulator and the agencies are doing their jobs.
 
GILLON: Minister, just to pick up on your comments about sharing these images, how much responsibility is on the user here? What is your message to Australians? We all have phones, our children have phones, who are following both the Bondi attacks and the church stabbing attacks online, and sharing images from those phones.
 
ROWLAND: This is a collective responsibility and I issued this afternoon to all my Parliamentary colleagues and encouraged them to share with their constituents and stakeholders as widely as possible, the fact that eSafety – esafety.gov.au – has a range of resources available.
 
We certainly do not encourage, and, in fact, we actively discourage, as eSafety has said - the sharing of this type of content. People have a choice about whether they choose to share this or not. But it is a collective responsibility and the platforms do need to do more.
 
We also need to ensure that as many people as possible understand that eSafety is there to assist, that there's a range of resources that eSafety has at its disposal that people can readily access. Just as the Prime Minister said this morning as well, I urge Australians to think very carefully before sharing this information. And I certainly actively discourage the sharing of this type of class one content.
 
GILLON: There have been reports that text messages calling on the church community last night to launch revenge attacks spread very quickly. We saw the results of hundreds and hundreds of people turning up to that church. Similarly, would you apply that warning to people who use their phones to essentially incite that sort of violence?
 
ROWLAND: Absolutely. And while text messaging is an older type of technology compared to the digital platforms, and some of the more sophisticated apps, the message remains the same. These are the kinds of messages that can be spread at speed and scale. And exactly as Premier Minns has said, the NSW Government and law enforcement Agencies will have zero tolerance for vigilante efforts. We continue to encourage communities to be calm, to understand that law enforcement is doing its job and that our regulators are doing their job as well.
 
GILLON: Communications Minister Michelle Rowland, really appreciate you speaking with us this afternoon. Thank you.
 
ROWLAND: Thank you.