Joint press conference - Darwin, Northern Territory

KATY GALLAGHER, MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Thank you everybody for coming. Can I start by thanking Northern Territory Indigenous Business Network for having us here today and to Naomi and all of the staff - thank you very much for hosting us.
 
I'm Katy Gallagher, Minister of Finance and Women, and I'm here with Michelle Rowland, the Minister for Communications. We've just finished a very important meeting up here in in the NT; the Data and Digital Ministers Meeting. We made significant progress in a range of areas, in particular, around digital inclusion. We had a very important discussion about that, including with members of the Indigenous Digital Inclusion Advisory Group who have been providing assistance to Government as we continue on our digitisation agenda. We also discussed women's safety, family and domestic violence and how we can use data and digital to help provide information, to share data and to make sure we're doing everything we can right across all Governments to keep women and children safe, as the National Cabinet focuses on family and domestic violence and seeks information from our Ministerial meeting – that was an important discussion as well.
 
We also launched a framework for artificial intelligence to apply across Government. All Governments are working out how to deal with AI, including generative AI, including some of the risks, but also some of the benefits that come with that, and having a consistent approach across Government is really important.
 
I'd certainly like to thank all of the Governments for working with us – working with the Commonwealth – to make sure that we're doing everything we can to make sure data and digital is used to the community's benefit and that we're constantly improving our services to the Australian community through the work that we do. I’ll hand to Michelle now and then happy to take questions.
 
MICHELLE ROWLAND, MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Thanks Minister. It was very productive to join today's Data and Digital Ministers Meeting. We know how important digitisation is, but what it relies on is connectivity. In regional and remote parts of Australia, having that access to basic connectivity remains a real challenge – that's particularly the case for First Nations communities. We know how important it is to be able to access things like telehealth and also ensuring that we have access to remote learning. But again, these rely on connectivity solutions. I'm very pleased to be part of a Government that wishes to deliver for First Nations communities and wants to work with them – which is one of the reasons why last year I established the First Nations Digital Inclusion Advisory Group; to ensure that we get buy in from First Nations Australians about the best way to go about this.
 
I'm very pleased to announce today that we now have onboard 18 communities as sites for free community Wi Fi. These are place-based solutions in remote areas, and they include three in the Northern Territory – one of those is Galiwinku, and we have representatives here today. I look forward to hearing from you about those particular needs and how these improvements will add to not only the quality of life, but also the quality of connectivity.
 
The Albanese Government is very much focused on digital inclusion – as I announced here almost a year ago as I laid forth the plan we had for digital inclusion for First Nations Australians. There are three focus areas: accessibility, affordability and ability. And to that end, part of our investment in the last Budget includes making sure that we have a First Nations Hub that is able to provide advice on technical solutions, and also a network of digital mentors. This arose directly from the consultations that we have had through the First Nations Digital Inclusion Advisory Group. We're taking that on board, and this will be a substantial change in the way that these remote communities are actually able to access connectivity solutions. They not only include internet access, but also data access and mobile access as well which can be provided over Wi-Fi. One of the most important things about place-based solutions that NBN Co have been designing with these local communities is to ensure that they have buy in on where they are placed – including some of the terms and conditions of use and some of the hours on which they'll be made available. It's this co-design that ensures that we are making the best of this infrastructure, that this investment really is placed-based and that it is bespoke to the needs of these particular communities.
 
We know that if we want to grow as a nation - we need to ensure that connectivity continues to be improved, including in areas where in some cases connectivity has been absent. We look forward to seeing a very measurable change in the circumstances of the lives of people living there. I'll hand over now to Gavin Williams from NBN Co to explain some more about the community Wi Fi program.
 
GAVIN WILLIAMS, NBN CO: NBN is committed to working with First Nations communities to lift digital capability, and that's what we're talking about here, but it's more than just connectivity. What we're talking about is how we can help empower communities to address digital inclusion gaps, to address issues in relation to getting best access to health care services, education, access to Government services – not to mention entertainment, and social media contact.
 
What we're announcing today is the first 18 communities who have accepted the offer – and we're delighted to be partnering with the Commonwealth to deliver this as a mesh Wi Fi solution, powered by the NBN Sky Muster satellite system. We’ll be providing access to Wi- Fi right across communities, which will provide free access to broadband. We’re also working importantly, as the Minister said, with communities, co designing not just for the technical solution, the location of technology infrastructure, but on issues such as times of day where services can be accessed and the types of services that content filtering would enable access to.
 
From here, we enter a phase of consultation with communities around detailed design, and then we'll go and install the services. It'll take about roughly 12 weeks from the point that we get that written acceptance, and we're well on the path with Galiwinku, with our first designs available for consultation today. It's quite humbling actually to speak to Anna and the representatives from Galiwinku on the sorts of positive impacts that access to fast and reliable broadband can have.
 
ANA TONKIN, YALU ABORIGINAL CORPORATION: Thank you very much, and thank you very much for having us here today. We're really honoured to have travelled in from Galiwinku in East Arnhem Land.
 
What's been said today will actually genuinely change lives in Galiwinku. Galiwinku is an incredibly remote community – it's an island community, and the families that we have living there, a lot of the time are separated by water and land. What this service – this free Wi Fi service – will provide is the opportunity for families to be able to connect seamlessly, which is not the case at the moment. It's very, very challenging. Things that we take for granted every day, like a simple phone call, sending an email, opening up PDFs are incredibly, incredibly difficult for us. What this will allow us to do is for families to connect to culture, businesses to actually be able to flow on quite easily and like Gavin also mentioned – simple things like entertainment and the ability to actually have access to information is really important. What this will also allow is an approach for Galiwinku to have access to critical information, such as connecting to the ATO, being ready for disaster management – Galiwinku is very prone to cyclones – so that's something that we're very, very mindful of.
 
We've been doing community consultation recently, and we've had some incredible reactions which Cyril will share for us, but we're really excited to be working with NBN and we're really, really grateful that this service is rolling out in Galiwinku. We're just really excited to see what the future holds.
 
CYRIL BUKULATJPI, YALU ABORIGINAL CORPORTATION: The reactions are really amazing in the community. Everyone was really excited and imagining that we could have free Wi-Fi that could help the community. There were also a disbelief – some were not quite sure – but we associated with them, and did consultation with the community. Some of the elderly people were saying that they could not just believe – and if they could see the Wi Fi – they could believe that it was happening. I also want to talk about our new headquarters coming. We are quite sure that our work, our ability, it would be really amazing to have with Wi-Fi that could help our staff to communicate, because we have a footprint across Arnhem Land. It would be really much better for us to help and assist with the communication and the staffing as well.
 
JOURNALIST: Ana and Cyril, what are some of the things that your people in Galiwinku want to see from this service in terms of how it's designed, like the co-design process? What specifically in Galiwinku is, is desired from this service?
 
TONKIN: What the community would like to see is a genuine co-design process. We're in that process at the moment, working with community members, advising and letting community members know what's to come. We're speaking with elders, with stakeholders with community members, and what the Yalu [Corporation] is really good at doing is engaging the most disengaged families, because we don't want them to miss out by any means. What we're also really ensuring happens is when the process is happening, and we have outside people coming into Galiwinku – whether it is to install, whether it is to support us in any way – to always be working with a Yolngu person on the ground. That’s really incredibly important for us. We’re really ensuring that we've got steps in place, that we are both Yolngu person and non-Yolngu people working together to make this possible.
 
JOURNALIST: Are there any sort of restrictions or controls that your people would like to see on this service?
 
TONKIN: Yeah, we were speaking about this earlier. The community has raised some questions around accessibility of some particular websites that they're not very comfortable with, or they do want to have safeguarding around to ensure that children are kept safe. From that, they’re coming up with a list of topics or websites particularly that they wish to maybe be restricted or to have limited access to, ensuring that only people that are of adult age are able to access those types of websites. We’re also in the process of discussing time, so some people are saying “let’s have it on 24/7m because that will be fantastic”, but others are actually considering if we should we have it turned off at a certain time. So we're still in process to discuss that with community.
 
JOURNALIST: Another issue I've heard raised, not in Galiwinku but in other remote communities, is issues with social media that are perhaps fuelling disputes between different family groups or adding to some of the tensions. Would you also be looking at having some control over access to some of those social media sites?
 
TONKIN: I think social media is a much bigger topic than all of us, but the reality is people are going to be accessing certain websites and social platforms anyway. What this service will do is really allow families to not be impacted by the cost of living and actually save them money – to be able to use a free service to be able to connect with family, communicate with family, which is already happening. This will allow them not to have to continuously pay extra for data or extra for phone calls and be able to use this service in a free way, which is actually going to be beneficial from a money perspective and leaving more money with the families. This will actually open up communication platforms for families to be able to communicate and, if there are any disagreements or anything like that, it'll allow another way of communication
 
JOURNALIST: Cyril, you’ve got quite a following on TikTok yourself. How important is social media, and TikTok in particular, to young people in Galiwinku?
 
BUKULATJPI: Being a person, socialising with other people and working, my perspective will be that maybe somehow kids would not be able to have a service, but it is much better to have education through that. It would be a great for me to approach that opportunity.
 
JOURNALIST: Just one for Michelle, if you wouldn't mind. The eSafety Commissioner's recommendations around age verification in your Government's trials of that service. Have any communities expressed interest in having that trial extended into this particular service?
 
ROWLAND: Firstly, I should be very clear this is a trial of technologies. We committed $6.5 million dollars in the Budget for a trial of age assurance technologies in three different use cases – age restricted materials, such as pornography, age restricted services, such as some video games, and social media.
 
What we are undertaking is a trial of those technologies, testing them for efficacy, their capability of being implemented, privacy and security and other concerns. From there, that will inform a number of areas. As we have made it very clear as a Government, there needs to be an appropriate age for social media. We know at the moment that there are age limits on social media, but the reality is that they are not enforced. It's very important that we undertake this exercise in a way that is evidence-based, that enables us to understand those technologies and also work with the eSafety Commissioner as they develop their codes of practice and shares their advice on the way in which this trial should be conducted. I think your point is very valid, however, that of course, we need to make sure that the trial and any decisions that we make arising from that are inclusive of all Australians. I think it's very instructive, as we've been discussing just now, that there are concerns about social media here, just as they are in wider society. Clearly, our representatives from Galiwinku have demonstrated that it has had positive benefits in connecting isolated communities. At the same time, there are harms, and this is a Government that is determined to take action when it comes to addressing those harms, including properly resourcing our eSafety Commissioner, updating our laws and regulations and doing everything that we can to keep our most vulnerable Australians in particular, safe.
 
JOURNALIST: Where is the Government up to in terms of designating Meta in terms of the News Media Bargaining Code?
 
ROWLAND: We have received the advice as a Government from the ACCC. As you'll be aware, there are some limbs that need to be followed under the Code before a decision on designation is made. We are going through that at the moment and assessing that advice. I do want to make it very clear that the entities we are dealing with here are highly litigious, multinational corporations with deep pockets. They have demonstrated their willingness to litigate and they have also demonstrated their willingness to utilise their market power, and it's for that reason that we are ensuring that we follow the Code process to the letter and we will have more to say in the near future on that.
 
JOURNALIST: Could Meta not be held to the same guidelines that mainstream media organisations are when it comes to the publication of content?
 
ROWLAND: That is part of the very valid question, and the issue is that publishers in Australia are held to certain standards, journalistic ethics and so forth. The reality is that on social media platforms, what the Code was seeking to do is ensure that social media properly recompensed to those publishers for utilising their content. It did not go to issues such as applying the same media standards on those platforms.
 
Clearly, there is a very strong argument for harmonisation when it comes to regulation of standards. It is one where Meta, in choosing to exit from news services in Australia, has made a clear decision to do this based on their own interests. It’s a decision that is deeply damaging to Australian publishers and to public interest journalism. Overall, it will mean that some $70 million of revenue is taken out of Australian news media. The arguments that Meta says Australians aren't accessing their news on social media. We heard evidence today in the Parliamentary inquiry that was having its first hearing, that this is clearly not the case, it’s clearly an area that's highly contested.
 
In summary, the social media platforms are not held to the same standards. That is a matter of fact. The reality is also that they are utilising, and have been utilising, the content of publishers to date under the News Media Bargaining Code. It has been a process of enabling recompense, but clearly this is an area that is deeply impacting for the Fourth Estate in Australia, and one that we take very seriously.
 
JOURNALIST: This week, the US Surgeon-General called for tobacco-like warning labels for social media platforms. Is that something that you think should happen here?
 
ROWLAND: Well, I think – as the eSafety Commissioner has noted – that this is not an issue that is going to have a single magic pill. It does require a high degree of education. If your question goes to education, then that is certainly one that this Government supports, and that's evidenced by the fact that we have invested in tools such as the Alannah and Madeleine Foundation to ensure that young people in schools – irrespective of their means – are able to access these resources for free. There's also a wealth of material that's available at esafety.gov.au as part of that educative function. It certainly requires a collective effort from industry, government and regulators and civil society.
 
But clearly the industry needs to do more in this area. They have the best knowledge of their users and they have the best knowledge of the cohorts of those users as well, including their age. I think where the Surgeon-General was going here was clearly an area of making sure that people are forewarned and that they are properly educated here. I will note also that in that in his illuminating opinion piece it was also pointed out that that would need to be a law in the US that would need to get support, and whether or not that would happen is another question under the US Congress. We know that there is no single solution here, and that's why we are investing in our regulator, we are implementing the Online Safety Act and we are ensuring that we have proper resourcing for media literacy, and we'll have more to say in this area as well.
 
JOURNALIST: So, are you concerned that with the de-platforming of news material on Meta that disinformation and sort of conspiracy theories will sort of fill that void?
 
ROWLAND: It's been very clear, not only from commentary from academics, but also by publishers themselves, that the digital detritus that is left over when news is exited is a deep concern. That’s why as a Government, we are seeking to introduce laws that deal with mis and disinformation, for the purpose of ensuring that the platforms are accountable, that they are transparent and we look at their systems and processes for how they deal with mis and disinformation. The removal of news from social media platforms will be deeply harming to Australian democracy – that is a fact, because what it will be replaced with is not trusted news sources that are subject to ethics and certain journalistic standards, but that digital detritus where mis and disinformation is left to breed unattended and unregulated, and that is certainly an area that this Government is seeking to address through legislation.
 
JOURNALIST: Given the points you're making about mis and disinformation - do you think it would be wise for Labor MPs to stop sharing pictures of three-eyed fish and the like, in terms of the nuclear debate that's going on at the moment?
 
ROWLAND: Well, it's very interesting that we've had complaints from the Opposition in this regard. They are all for free speech, except when it is done about issues that they disagree with.
 
JOURNALIST: One last question for Gavin, just on the Sky Muster technology. So that's satellite technology, correct? How does that satellite technology deal with like extreme weather events that often occur in North East Arnhem Land in the wet season?
 
WILLIAMS: Yeah, we've had plenty of experience with the Sky Muster service over just a little over half a decade right across the country, including in East Arnhem Land. It's proven its efficacy right across the country, including in East Arnhem Land, and it's proven its efficacy right across the country through wind, fire and monsoonal rain. Now, during a monsoonal rain event, service can be interrupted, but once the cloud passes, service comes right back up and it's one of the most reliable services actually in the most remote parts of our country.
 
JOURNALIST: In the wet season you've often got like cloud cover for days at a time –
 
WILLIAMS: Yeah, it would [have to] be the most extreme rain event that would interrupt the service. It's proven its efficacy over half a decade in the tropics.
 
JOURNALIST: In terms of the speeds of internet, you know, compared to the 4G or the 5G networks that are currently in North East Arnhem Land, what's the sort of speed difference that we're looking at?
 
WILLIAMS: Well, the speeds that we're seeing on some of the mesh solutions that we have piloted elsewhere in the country - we see typical speeds in busier hours around 50 to 70 megabits per second to the handset, but of course that's going to vary depending on how many users there are at a given point in time.