Interview with Craig Zonca, ABC Brisbane Breakfast

CRAIG ZONCA, HOST: You might have started your day phone on your bedside table and checked your Facebook status or Instagram - but to what extent? I ask that because it can also be this hive of misinformation, of abuse and harm. In many ways, I guess, that is what has prompted a move from the Federal Government to instigate a Parliamentary inquiry.
 
LORETTA RYAN, HOST: Michelle Rowland is Minister for Communications. Good morning, what will the committee be focusing on?
 
MICHELLE ROWLAND, MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Good morning. The committee will be focusing on - exactly as you say - the need to have social media be transparent and also accountable in their actions. They are now a central part of everyday life. You were just hearing earlier - it's the way that millions of Australians stay in touch with family and friends and even run their businesses. So, they've become these unavoidable trading partners for so many Australians. I think the key issue of this Committee is that social media also has harms, and also with the decision that has been particularly taken by Meta to no longer pay for news on its platform, it really is important that they do more and they do better as social media companies. This is what the committee will be examining.
 
RYAN: Has the horse bolted, though? Shouldn't we have done this earlier?
 
ROWLAND: I think there's two things there. Firstly, Australia was actually the first jurisdiction to have a News Media Bargaining Code - an actual piece of legislation in place that puts together a framework for social media companies to properly recompense news media publishers for their news. Secondly, we have an Online Safety Act in place. We know how much social media has developed even in a short space of time. Our Online Safety Act only came into force at the beginning of 2022, but so many new harms have emerged since then. Back then, the term generative AI really wasn't even known, and now we're dealing with really harmful issues, including the rise of deep fakes. There has been substantial research that's been done about some of the impacts on particularly young and more vulnerable people.
 
What's important here is that the Parliament do its job in accounting for what these social media platforms do. The current opaque nature of their algorithms, their recommender systems, for example, and how this is influencing what Australians see. I should also just stress in closing there that this is not the only piece of work that the Government is doing. We have brought forward a review of the Online Safety Act, we are looking at the introduction of legislation - as was announced last week - around banning [pornographic] deep fakes and other measures that can be taken to help protect particularly young people online. This is a really critical component. The world is looking at Australia right now. The impact on our economy and our democracy, particularly by the refusal of Meta to pay for news, is really fundamental. The Parliament should be doing its job and holding these platforms to account.
 
ZONCA: What does it say about us as a society that we are now relying in many circumstances on these platforms for news?
 
ROWLAND: The rise of social media and the Internet overall has been a great liberator – it has meant that people have been able to express opinions and consume content in a way that suits. We know that over half of all Australians actually consume their news through social media, and the vast majority thinks it's important that social media carry it. What is fundamental here is that it needs to be produced. This quality content that is actually regulated, is accountable to certain standards, needs to be produced and needs to be made available to consumers, and news media publishers need to be fairly recompensed for that. That is what Meta has disrupted with its decision to no longer pay for news.
 
RYAN: But can the committee change that?
 
ROWLAND: I think what's important here is that we hold the platforms to account, that we question them on what they are doing, that we explore some of these fundamental issues that are going to a wide variety - not only of harms - but also practices of the platforms. So, I think it's important for Government to do everything at its disposal.
 
I just point out this is one of the key jobs of the Parliament. One of the key jobs of the Parliament is to probe these issues, and what we have proposed here is to have a Joint Parliamentary Select Committee. This open to members to be selected across the Parliament. I think that this is a fundamental issue of concern not only to all parliamentarians, but to their constituents as well.
 
ZONCA: Of note, in the past couple of weeks been the fight - I guess you could describe it as - between the Government, the eSafety Commissioner and X, formerly Twitter, owned by Elon Musk, particularly over videos of the Wakeley church stabbing. X have been very critical of Australia's eSafety laws claiming censorship. Where is the line then, Minister?
 
ROWLAND: Well, a democratically elected Parliament of Australia determined that there is certain content that should not be seen by Australians online, and they include depictions of actual violence, child sexual abuse material and pro-terror content. The content that is at question here falls into that category of class one content.
 
The Government backs our eSafety Commissioner as an independent regulator enforcing their powers under the Online Safety Act. This matter is before the courts at the moment, so I will not delve into the details there, I would point out that not only do we back the eSafety Commissioner. They do a great deal of work in developing resources and having them in a trusted place at eSafety.gov.au.
 
I know that many of your listeners at the moment - particularly parents and caregivers - may be feeling a great weight at the moment. I'm a mum of two young girls and I understand the importance of being able to have proper conversations. There is a wealth of resources that eSafety has available and I would urge your listeners to go to eSafety.gov.au and avail themselves of that.
 
ZONCA: Yeah, it is a minefield for parents and even within the classroom environment and education as we have been talking about over the last couple of days here on ABC Brisbane as well. Michelle Rowland, thanks for your time.
 
ROWLAND: My pleasure.