Interview with ABC Radio Melbourne, Mornings with Rafael Epstein

RAF EPSTEIN, HOST: Let's talk about all the different Triple Zero issues that we have had. The responsibility for a lot of our Triple Zero issues falls with the Communications Minister in the Federal Government. That is Michelle Rowland, good morning.

 

MICHELLE ROWLAND, MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Good morning.

 

EPSTEIN: If I can start with what Telstra said to us this week. It was the Telstra call centre that had a problem last week. The CEO said to me that it was the most significant issue Telstra had ever had with that contract. Is that problem big enough for them to lose the contract?

 

ROWLAND: I think we should step back for a minute because the regulator – the ACMA – is looking into this issue now. I don't doubt that the CEO and Telstra itself is deeply concerned by this, and I take their comments at face value. I think it was important for Telstra to have provided a quick and public update on the outage. But what is concerning, as you alluded to in your introduction, is that there have been some incidents in the past couple of months in particular, which have highlighted not only the importance of Triple Zero, but the importance of all telco operators to do their part in making sure that Australians have confidence in Triple Zero. That is that it works properly, and that the industry overall lifts its game. But it is, I should stress, the highest priority of this Government to keep Australians safe and Triple Zero is a very important part of that.

 

EPSTEIN: I appreciate you paying respect to process and waiting for inquiry, but if Telstra says it's the most significant problem they've got, isn't it reasonable to think that that should at least be a significant question next time they bid for the contract?

 

ROWLAND: It certainly is significant and I think as the Emergency Call Person. Telstra has long had these obligations. It's been well equipped to do that, not only in terms of its history and its scale, but also the experience that it has. I really don't want to get ahead of ourselves here. We're talking about a significant contract and obligation. But I do take your point, and I go back to the fact that this actually is an area that operates across the whole telco ecosystem, and it's one where certain vulnerabilities have been highlighted in recent times, not least of all the fact that, unfortunately, we're having more frequent and more severe adverse weather impacts and other natural disasters. It is forefront of our mind as a Government to make sure that we are lifting the industry, making sure that regulation and enforcement keeps pace with that. We've got the inquiry into this matter with Telstra, we also have in a couple of weeks, the independent inquiry will be provided in terms of the Optus outage, which did impact on Triple Zero as well. I would guess that there would be a lot of learnings to be made from those and we should take very good account of them.

 

EPSTEIN: It is getting worse, though, right? Like those three significant events over in less than half a year, that seems unusual?

 

ROWLAND: It would seem unusual. I do recall some time ago, for example, some of the big issues that changed around telco, consumer regulation and safety. I think it was an incident that actually happened in Victoria and it was when Richard Alston was the Minister. There was a young child, some of your listeners might remember this, who had an asthma attack, couldn't reach Triple Zero, and unfortunately, he died. That led to quite a significant overhaul of consumer protections with respect to telco obligations.

 

I would like to think that we are getting ahead of this. We had, even yesterday the announcement of a very significant fine on Optus for its failure to comply with obligations with respect to what's called the Integrated Public Number Database. That's basically, amongst other things: if Triple Zero is called, you're able to identify certain information for Triple Zero purposes. That is important to have that enforcement, but I think what is more important overall is the industry lifting its game.

 

I had the opportunity in Melbourne recently to meet with Victorian Minister Gabrielle Williams, who's responsible for Government Services and has been doing a lot in terms of the weather impacts that happened recently in Victoria. She is very alive to this, not only in terms of resilience, but also that Triple Zero is a very high priority. I want to stress to your listeners that we want everyone to have confidence in Triple Zero. I've been to that call centre, which is actually located in Melbourne. Those people there are professionals. But at the same time, we need to make sure that everyone's systems prioritise Triple Zero and everyone is doing everything they need to do. If that is being done, but it's still found to be insufficient, then, of course, the Government will take those learnings in terms of what we need to do in terms of a better regulatory response.

 

EPSTEIN: It's not clear to me if the phone companies need to report if there are issues with those three examples. So, people not being able to call Triple Zero during the Optus outage, when the storms came a few weeks ago, the mobile towers went down and then Telstra last week. In every instance, I think the media raised those concerns, I mean ABC Radio Melbourne raised two of those issues hours before the phone companies did. Is there mandatory reporting? Should they be getting out ahead of that and letting people know that there is a Triple Zero issue?

 

ROWLAND: There are guidelines that apply for communications during an emergency. I think part of the issue has been the ability to identify where the problems are. And I take your point completely about the media highlighting issues. I was doing a radio interview the morning of the Optus outage where a caller rang in and said they couldn't dial Triple Zero. So, that prompted me to seek my own information from Optus –

 

EPSTEIN: That’s pretty hopeless, isn't it?

 

ROWLAND: It’s not satisfactory. But at the same time, it appears to depend on the nature of the outage and the ability for the telco to identify what has gone wrong. I'm not raising these as excuses for anyone. I think that it does point to perhaps some of the reasons why that is. But again, I think it highlights the need for the public to be kept informed, especially if it goes to Triple Zero issues. I think people understand, and it is a fact that depending on, for example, the nature of a disaster, if the power takes out all the terrestrial mobile services in an area, it simply means that that network cannot operate in that area and I think people understand that. At the same time, we need to improve the resilience. We've got a number of initiatives underway to do that.

 

But I take your point. The public has a very reasonable expectation that when something is wrong with something as fundamental as the Triple Zero service, that they should be notified and that they are given that confidence by the fact that they are being updated by the people who know the networks – and the people who know the networks are the carriers themselves.

 

EPSTEIN: Just before I let you go, Labor was successful in winning again in the seat of Dunkley. You know better than most Peta Murphy chaired a Parliamentary Committee recommending a complete ban on gambling advertising. I watched an episode actually online of Married at First Sight last night. Every single ad break had two gambling ads in it. Are you going to ban those ads as Peta Murphy wanted you to?

 

ROWLAND: Well, firstly, Peta Murphy's legacy is important for many reasons, not least of all the fact that she did chair this very important inquiry. We're giving that very due consideration as a Government, taking on board the evidence that we've gleaned, but also we want to make it comprehensive. We understand that in the past this has been tinkered with at the edges, which actually has resulted in increases in gambling advertising. So, we want to make this comprehensive.

 

There were significant recommendations that also went to powers that are normally vested in State Governments, but we need to make sure that the response that we have here is one that has what I call harm minimisation at its heart. We understand that we do have, unfortunately, per capita, the highest gambling losses in the world. We also need to make sure that we have appropriate responses that take into account the fact that this actually has a network effect. It doesn't only impact on the person who has this problem –

 

EPSTEIN: It sounds like an argument for banning all the ads.

 

ROWLAND: We are looking at this very carefully. That is why, as the Prime Minister said, we are doing this comprehensively and we'll be in a position to make an announcement as to our response in due course.

 

EPSTEIN: Appreciate your time this morning. Thanks a lot.

 

ROWLAND: My pleasure.