Interview with Bridget Brennan, ABC News Breakfast

BRIDGET BRENNAN, HOST: Dating apps are on notice to improve safety for users, with a new voluntary code coming into effect today. Michelle Rowland is the Federal Communications Minister and she joins us from Canberra. Good morning to you, Minister.
 
MICHELLE ROWLAND, MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Good morning.
 
BRENNAN: Tell us, so many Australians fall victim to predatory behaviour on online dating apps. It's extremely concerning how many people are being caught up in this. What will a voluntary code do about this?
 
ROWLAND: Well, firstly, exactly as you say, dating apps are actually the most common way of meeting a new partner in Australia now. Unfortunately, research from the Australian Institute of Criminology showed that some 75 per cent of survey respondents had experienced some form of tech-facilitated abuse, and in the vast majority of cases, these were women.
 
So, what we did as a Government, was bring together the dating apps sector – victim survivor groups, domestic and family violence experts, law enforcement, the regulators - to try and find a way in which we could have a solution to this and we could incentivise the industry to do better.
 
I'm pleased to say that today, from 1 October, the voluntary dating apps code is now operationalised. The eSafety Commissioner has reviewed the code and found it to be fit for purpose, but certainly this is not a set and forget. In nine months, eSafety will report back on the effectiveness of the code.
 
Certainly, the whole point of this is to make this very popular form of meeting new partners, one that is safer, one that encourages innovation, but one in which the sector is incentivised to have better safety features to protect Australians online.
 
BRENNAN: There have long been allegations that online dating platforms don't take this issue seriously enough. Why did you decide to make the code voluntary?
 
ROWLAND: Well, there's two points here. Firstly: it was pleasing to see that even the announcement of the Roundtable, that the Albanese Government convened last year, resulted in the platforms actually bringing forward new safety features. Clearly they have had the capacity to do that, and the risk of regulation has incentivised them to do that.
 
Secondly: we know that self-regulation is often the best and quickest form of regulation in innovative industries. But at the same time, of course, we have consistently said that if this code does not deliver the safety benefits that we expect for Australians, then the Government will have no hesitation in imposing direct regulation on this sector. So, what we want here is outcomes.

We want people to continue to experience - and to have the freedom to choose these apps - but they do need to be made safer. I think the fact that 75 per cent of the industry having signed up to this code, and they include big names like RSVP, eHarmony, Bumble – some of these big names clearly demonstrate that this is an area in which the industry is willing to participate.
 
We will continue to monitor this area, but again, this is all about making sure that the availability of these apps and their operation is safer for Australians.
 
BRENNAN: So under this new code, Minister, for example, if there's a survivor or a victim who makes an allegation to a platform, what will they be required to do now?
 
ROWLAND: Well, firstly, there needs to be a complaint-handling process. This is a pretty basic feature that Australians would have expected in the first place. If there are grounds to ban a particular individual from utilising one of those platforms, if they're banned on one platform, they're blocked on all platforms.
 
There's also better liaison with law enforcement agencies, meaning that reporting of this is done in a more systemised way and one that is more effective. I look forward to there being greater confidence in the ability of Australians to utilise these apps, knowing that these safety features have been implemented under the code.
 
But again, this is an area that we will continue to monitor, and if it doesn't deliver the improvements that the Government expects, we'll have no hesitation in going further with regulation.
 
BRENNAN: All right. We'll keep an eye on it. Let's move on to a separate issue. Now, Minister, when will we know whether there's going to be an outright ban on gambling advertising in Australia?
 
ROWLAND: We are pursuing a very comprehensive suite of reforms here in response to the late Peta Murphy's report. We want this to be comprehensive and we are addressing three key areas. The first is protecting children; secondly, breaking that nexus between sport and online wagering; and third is dealing with the saturation of ads, particularly that targeting of ads towards one of the most vulnerable cohorts, which is young men aged 18 to around 35. So, we’re working through that comprehensively.
 
I will point out that of the thirty, or so, recommendations, a large number of them deal with State and Commonwealth relations, so we need to work through those carefully. We are doing this as expeditiously as possible, but I can obviously appreciate that your viewers would have wanted action in this area some ten years ago.
 
We know that Australia unfortunately suffers some $25 billion a year from gambling losses. Of course, the vast majority of that comprises land-based gambling, both pokies and casinos, for which there is little or no advertising.
 
But we do know that online wagering is an area of growing harms. We want our response to be forward-looking, we want it to be effective, and we want it to ensure that there are limited unintended consequences that they can be dealt with, and that is an effective approach.
 
BRENNAN: Surely an effective approach, as public health bodies have said, is to just make the simple decision to ban it outright?
 
ROWLAND: Well, again, we are pursuing this based on those three principles which I have outlined. I will point out that the advertising aspect of this report was one aspect. We want to respond to this comprehensively. We want it to be future-looking, and we want to ensure that it's effective.
 
BRENNAN: So, will there be an outright ban? That's what the report recommended. It was very comprehensive.
 
ROWLAND: Well, we are consulting on a model which goes to those three areas, and we want to ensure that the response we have is one that is comprehensive. It's one that does take into account that States and Territories do have a role in this as well.
 
I will point out for your viewers that this is not an area in which the Albanese Government has been idle. We have banned the use of credit cards for online wagering. We have implemented BetStop, which is the first one-stop online self-exclusion mechanism, which has resulted in nearly 30,000 Australians choosing to self-exclude. It's been in operation now for a year. We've amended and updated the verification requirements for online wagering; we've also changed the classification rules as they apply to loot boxes and simulated gambling in games that goes directly to children. This is an area in which the Government is taking a comprehensive approach.
 
We'll continue to work through this because we know that Australians want change in this area, and the Government’s made it clear that the status quo is unsustainable.
 
BRENNAN: All right. Looking forward to hearing some concrete details about that.

Quickly to Lebanon, there are signs now that Israel is going to launch a ground invasion. We have a lot of Australian citizens in Lebanon, not to mention the Lebanese population, which is now under threat. How concerned are you, Michelle Rowland, about what's happening in Lebanon?
 
ROWLAND: It is a most grave situation. The Australian Government continues to call for a ceasefire both in Gaza and Lebanon. As the Foreign Minister has said, we cannot let Lebanon become the next Gaza. The hostages need to be released. We need to have a de-escalation here.
 
Australians know, and Australians have been warned for some time not to travel to Lebanon and to leave if it is possible to leave. We reiterate our call for Australians to get out of Lebanon. This is a most grave situation and I know that many Australians, including of Lebanese background, are praying for Lebanon right now. As a Government, we call for a de-escalation and we call for an immediate ceasefire.
 
BRENNAN: Michelle Rowland, thanks for your time. Have a good day.
 
ROWLAND: Thank you.