Press conference, Sydney

MICHELLE ROWLAND, MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Today, the Government acknowledges changes made by Meta to boost privacy and parental controls on Instagram for users aged under 18.
 
Any development that genuinely makes social media safer and healthier for young Australians is welcomed by Government. We know that everyone has a role to play here - Governments, industry and civil society. The Albanese Government has been crystal clear: the industry needs to do more, and today’s announcement shows that they can do more. That is why our government is acting.
 
Early evidence shows that access to social media can be harmful, and our Government has been clear that safety, as well as the mental and physical health of Australians, particularly our youngest Australians, is paramount. That’s why, just last week, our Government committed to introducing legislation this year to enforce a minimum age for access to social media. Our priority is the ongoing safety of Australians, and that's the forward-facing national approach that we're taking in this regard.
 
National leadership will ensure that young people are better protected from online harms, and that parents are better supported. We know that mums and dads right around the country want to see real solutions to combat these problems. This important work builds on the Albanese Government's funding of a trial of age assurance technologies that could be effective in preventing children's access to online pornography, and also to social media.
 
We know that technology moves fast - no government is going to be able to fully protect every child from every threat every day, but we have to do all we can to make this better. In this pursuit, the national conversation has proposed a range of ages to be considered. The Government will be guided by evidence, and the age assurance trial is testing technologies that could be effective to ensure ages from 13 up to 16, and that's where we're currently focused. We also, of course, have a world leading regulator in eSafety working across multiple fronts to support a safer online environment for all Australians.
 
Now, this important work is just one way that we're ensuring that digital platforms act in the best interests of all Australians. In the most recent Parliamentary sitting, I introduced legislation to ensure the regulator, the Australian Communications and Media Authority, has the powers it needs to hold digital platforms to account for their systems and processes in relation to combating seriously harmful mis and disinformation on their platforms.
 
Today, the Australian Communications and Media Authority released its latest report into the voluntary industry code of practice dealing with mis and disinformation in Australia. What this does is underscore the need for the Government's legislation to combat harmful, seriously harmful mis and disinformation online.
 
We know from the ACMA's report that around 80 per cent of Australians are concerned about this, and they want something done about it. That's why industry efforts to address this problem need to be encouraged. But at the same time, the ACMA report today notes that, under the voluntary industry code, there's a lack of consistent Australian data, and we can't be confident that the platforms are actually delivering on their industry policies.
 
That's why we're taking decisive action in this space. Doing nothing and allowing this problem to fester is simply not an option. Our top security agencies, our defence personnel, our regulators all say that something needs to be done. Importantly, we're looking right across Government at solutions to combat online harms. Just last week, my colleague, the Attorney-General, introduced vital legislation to tackle hate speech and bolster privacy protections. That builds on the recent passage of laws to criminalise non-consensual deepfake material.
 
Again, particularly bolstering these privacy protections for children is so important. The Assistant Treasurer also brought forward critical reforms to make digital platforms accountable for protecting Australians from scams. In all these areas, the Albanese Government is acting decisively.
 
We welcome today's announcement by Meta, but more needs to be done and we're determined as a Government to get it done.
 
JOURNALIST: Meta says this doesn't have anything to do with Government policy. Do you believe that? Do you think that that's true?
 
ROWLAND: Well, there's two things here. Firstly, as I said, we welcome any moves to make the online environment safer. And to have these new tools in place that deal with not only contact but also screen time and the type of content that young people are exposed to on the platforms.
 
Since coming to office, the Albanese Government has had a strong agenda in this space. We quadrupled ongoing base funding for the eSafety Commissioner. We updated the Basic Online Safety Expectations.

We've ensured that the eSafety Commissioner can get on with the important job of implementing the Online Safety Act. I brought forward by a year a review of the Online Safety Act to ensure it remains fit for purpose.
 
The Albanese Government has been taking decisive action on a number of streams in this space. As I said in May, we announced that we would have an age assurance trial, which was funded in the Budget and also in relation to age limits for social media. Last week, we announced that we would bring in legislation this term.
 
I note Meta's statement that they've been working on this for some time. Again, we welcome that, but I think it also goes to show that decisive actions by Governments can have incentives as well. They have been working on this for some time, they say. So have we, since coming to office. But we want to see more done. That is why we have made the decision to introduce legislation this year.
 
I think it also serves as an analogy. I stood up here some time ago and talked about how we needed to improve safety on online dating apps, and even bringing together a roundtable of industry regulators and experts in this area, caused those online dating app providers to announce improvements to their safety policies. We said as a Government that if they didn't have substantial improvements through a voluntary industry code, that we would introduce regulation. We do now have that voluntary industry code. So I think not only is it important for Governments to be clear in their intent, but also to demonstrate through our actions that we are serious about improving online safety for all users.
 
JOURNALIST: What's the scope here? Are we talking, you know, children using streaming apps or even Discord, Twitch. You said that technology keeps moving forward. How is the Government going to keep going then?
 
ROWLAND: Well, I think there's a few things there. Firstly, the announcement we've seen today applies to one platform, that is Instagram. The Government is seeking to introduce legislation and have that passed by the Parliament, we’ll introduce that this year, that relates to access to social media by children.
 
We're looking at an age range here of between 13 and 16. So what we are seeking to do is build on what we've already got in the Online Safety Act. There are provisions there that define different types of digital platforms and online service platforms. We are going through that process at the moment to determine precisely what is in the scope of that, because we want to introduce the legislation this year. That is under active consideration as to what falls within those groups. But it's something that we need to get right, that we take very seriously.
 
I'll end on this point, I've talked about making it safer and making this better. I think all Australians would appreciate that Governments can do what they can. Industry can do what they can. We can't make every place safe, completely safe, every minute of every day for every child. But what Australians do expect, and what Governments can deliver, is what is better than we've got right now. That's what we're seeking to do through introducing this legislation.
 
JOURNALIST: Why is the Government spending millions of dollars on age verification technology, when the platforms themselves clearly have the capacity to make changes to improve the safety?
 
ROWLAND: What we are doing here is funding a trial of age assurance technologies. We're not seeking to mandate a particular technology. The outcome here is to determine the effectiveness of those technologies, and I think that is the key here: not only does it work, but will it be accepted by platforms? Are there minimum standards that should be applied?
 
Whilst we welcome this announcement by Meta, it's also incumbent on the platforms, even today, to utilise every tool at their disposal to ensure that they can identify what Australians are seeing and whether it's appropriate for those particular cohorts of Australians.
 
If you go to Instagram’s site, even today, they will tell you that they are using artificial intelligence to determine the ages of their users because they have 13 as a minimum age. The key issue here is that it's not getting enforced. One of the reasons why it's not getting enforced is that there isn't a consistent set of age assurance standards across Australia. So, what we're seeking to do through this trial, is to identify the effectiveness - whether it will be taken up, does it satisfy those privacy and security concerns.
 
It is an important step for the Government to do this. It is helping to inform a large part of what we're doing in this area, particularly around social media age limits. Overall, it sends a signal to all platforms that the Government expects them to do more because they know their users best, and they should be enforcing their own terms of service.
 
JOURNALIST: Minister, you said that you want to legislate this year. When will the age verification trials actually start?
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ROWLAND: We have said that we will introduce legislation this year. The age assurance trial combines three parts. Two of them are nearing completion now, and they include the important part of consultation, not only with experts but with young people themselves. 
 
We have a tender that is out there now for the third stage. I should stress why it is important to get this third stage right. We are dealing with live testing of access to social media and other restricted content by young people. There's ethics involved here, there's human rights issues involved here, and we need to ensure that all of those requirements are satisfied. We will be informed, as part of our deliberations on the age limit for social media, by what comes out of that.
 
There has already been very useful information that's come out of that already, including we know there's a variety of opinions on what the appropriate age should be, and that is useful. There's a number of other things that's informing us as well. We welcome the work that's been done by South Australia, for example, and the report by former Chief Justice French, who advocated a national approach to this. (He) identified the problem, but also identified that greater problems would arise if there wasn't a national approach to this issue. 
 
So, we're being informed by a variety of work that has been done and work that is ongoing as well.
 
JOURNALIST: Minister, the ABC News Director has admitted a video clip of Australian troops firing from a helicopter in Afghanistan was incorrectly edited with audio of six gunshots instead of one. That video was online for two years. It's now been removed, but what will the Government do to ensure Australians can trust our national broadcaster? 
 
ROWLAND: That report is deeply concerning. At the same time, whilst I acknowledge that the ABC has operational and editorial independence, these are questions for the ABC to answer. I will be seeking a briefing from the ABC on this issue because you are absolutely right, Australians need to have trust in their national broadcaster. Again, whilst I acknowledge the editorial and operational independence, this is a very serious issue that does need to be addressed in a transparent way.
 
JOURNALIST: Minister, just back to Instagram. So as you said, part of the argument for that minimum age verification was about online safety. But the Prime Minister has also said that kids need to have real experiences on the football field, for example, and then it was responded that kids don't necessarily differentiate between what's online and what's offline in terms of what is real. Do you think maybe the social media ban might hurt kids who rely on these platforms and not sport defined communities? 
 
ROWLAND: I think your question is really insightful because, as we have found out through our consultations with young people in the age assurance trials already, people have different experiences online. For some young people, this is one of the only forms of communication that they have. They, in their words, are able to find their tribe. It ensures that some kids, particularly children who may be neurodivergent, actually have experiences that mean that they're not isolated. So, I do wish to acknowledge that social media does have many benefits, including for young people who might otherwise be, or feel, excluded from society. 
 
At the same time, it comes with harms. We know that children are acting differently today than they did 10, 15 years ago for a variety of reasons. I need look only to the mobile phone ban in schools here in New South Wales. As teachers have reported, whilst this was seen as something of a drastic step, it has resulted in young people getting out, being more active, having more conversations with other children, and that's a healthy thing.
 
The key here is around balance - and as many parents will tell you, it has become too imbalanced when it comes to children, their exposure to the digital platforms, and the harms that they may cause. Government does have a role to play here, just as industry does as well. Government has had a role in the States in implementing that ban. In some of these discussions, teachers have relayed to me how children during the day are fine when they don't have their phones. But when they get back to their devices, at the end of the day, it becomes a different story again. I think this is about balance. 
 
And as I said last week in the Parliament, the Government is not seeking to tell parents how to raise their children. But there is certainly a normative value here. As a parent of a 12-year-old girl, I can tell you the thing you hear a lot is ‘everyone else is doing it, everyone else is allowed to do it.’ I think that normative value is an issue that's being fed back to me, reflected to me very much by parents who appreciate that the efforts in this space are for a solid purpose.
 
JOURNALIST: Minister, it’s now been more than six months since Meta announced that it would do away with deals with news publishers. When can the Government be expected to make an announcement?
 
ROWLAND: I'll make the point that the Government believes that news media publishers should be properly recompensed for the use of their content by the digital platforms, and the decision by Meta to cease paying for news is one that is a dereliction of their obligations.
 
The Government has received advice from the ACCC, which has been closely considered at the moment, including by the Assistant Treasurer, who has carriage for this. We will have more to say in due course. But I can assure you that we will be guided by the overarching principle that news publishers must be properly recompensed for the use of their content by the digital platforms.

JOURNALIST: Minister, we know that Meta is using account data in order to enforce these safety standards. Do you believe there should be legislation to regulate how that user data is used to engage and advertise to young Australians?

ROWLAND: This is an issue that's been looked at in a number of contexts, including through ad-tech inquiries. But what I will say, in terms of online harms, is the Government is particularly focused on the way in which content is being served up to young people. This is something that's being looked at through our review of the Online Safety Act. It's also something that's being looked at through the Parliamentary Committee that we established into social media. So whilst we do know that it is an area of high concern, we are examining this at the moment. I think today's announcement shows that even in this area, industry can and should do more of their own volition without waiting for the Government, but where there is a role for Government, we will act.

JOURNALIST: I just want to confirm whilst the announcement today is welcomed, it doesn't change the Government's plan for the age limit. Is that correct?

ROWLAND: The announcement today is welcomed. However, it does not negate the Government's intention to introduce legislation this year to mandate a minimum age for access to social media. As a Government, we want to do everything we can to keep young Australians safe. We note that this is on one platform, and again, we note the platforms should do more and today's announcement shows that they can do more.

JOURNALIST: Minister, these platforms do have a minimum age, but you say they're not being enforced. Why do you think they are not being enforced?

ROWLAND: I think there's probably two reasons: firstly, it is not in their commercial interest to do so. Secondly, their whole commercial imperative is based on maintaining eyeballs, whatever eyeballs they are, for as long as they can. That is the profit motive of the digital platforms. Whilst I've noted that there are positive features concerning access, we also know of the harms. The Government needs to act to protect our most vulnerable Australians, particularly children.

JOURNALIST: Minister, the move from Instagram today doesn't change the algorithm that feeds content to users. Do you think the new measures are useless if the same material is still being sent to young kids?

ROWLAND: Well, I think from what Meta has announced today, they have changes in terms of who can contact young people, what sort of settings are there for the type of content that is received, and also notifications about screen time and some warnings about screen time. So I think it remains to be seen, in terms of that second requirement about content, precisely what that means. Irrespective of that, we will continue to look at this through our review of the Online Safety Act and also through the parliamentary inquiry.

JOURNALIST: Minister, the Prime Minister supports an age limit of about 16, he said. Do you support that?

ROWLAND: We will conduct this trial-

JOURNALIST: Your personal view?

ROWLAND: My personal view is that we need to look at a range of options. It's a live conversation that is going on at the moment. I note that the South Australian Premier has nominated an age of 14. The New South Wales Premier, I understand, is 16. We do need to be informed by the experts, and we do need to ensure that this is done properly. So, we will continue with not only our age assurance trial, but also as we develop this legislation, consulting with experts to get this right.

JOURNALIST: Minister, since you called gambling companies and media companies to your office to sort of respond quite quickly to the proposal. Where are we? When are you going to introduce? Is it going to be this year that these online gambling advertising reforms are going to be introduced?

ROWLAND: The Government's position is that the current level of advertising when it comes to sports wagering in Australia is untenable. We cannot have a situation where Australians lose some $25 billion a year. While sports wagering is actually low by comparison, it is one which is rising. So we continue to consult on a model with impacted stakeholders. I'm grateful for that level of engagement.

I would also point out that of the Murphy Review recommendations, a large proportion of those dealt with matters to do with Commonwealth-State relations. My colleague, Minister Rishworth, is dealing with those in that regard.

One of the areas that we have been exploring closely when it comes to this is around racing. Racing, as we know, exists for the purposes of betting. It is one in which the States are very enlivened - not only because it has an impact on their state economies, but also because it employs thousands of people right across Australia. I'm engaging directly with state racing Ministers on these issues as well. There are multiple stakeholders that need to be consulted. Again, we are going through the evidence that we have received from this. But the Government is determined to respond comprehensively to this inquiry. We are determined to break the nexus between sport and wagering.

People should be getting excited at this time of the year about the AFL grand finals and the NRL grand finals. They shouldn't be getting excited about the odds. They should be getting excited about the game. So, we're determined to break that nexus.
 
We're also determined to protect children, and we are determined to deal with the saturation of ads, particularly as it pertains to one of the most vulnerable cohorts, and that's young men aged about 18 to 35.

As you go through this process, they are the three principles that we have forefront. We continue to consult on that because we want to get this right.
 
I'll end by saying the last time this was looked at under the previous Government, it actually resulted in an increase in advertising and particularly an increase in broadcast advertising in regional areas. We need to avoid those unintended consequences, and that's why we're conducting this in a most thorough manner and will continue to do so.
 
JOURNALIST: Is there an update on the timing for when you’ll bring the proposal?
 
ROWLAND: We will continue to do this as efficiently as possible.
 
JOURNALIST: Just to be crystal clear with the Meta changes. Have they brought Instagram into alignment with the Government's proposal, or are they going to have to do more and verify ages?
 
ROWLAND: Well, let's be clear: the Government's proposal is to introduce legislation this year to mandate a minimum age for access to social media. Whether or not Instagram considers that it meets any requirements in future, that's a matter for them to determine. For the Government's part, we've made it clear what we intend to do.
 
JOURNALIST: Do you think Meta is trying to undermine the case for the legislation?
 
ROWLAND: I welcome any decision and any action taken by platforms to make them safer, particularly for children. Whether or not Meta has chosen to do this in response to Government action, whether they've chosen to do this for other reasons, is a matter that you will have to ask them.
 
I do note that they say they've been working on this for some time. I also do note that in May this year, we announced our intention to have an age assurance trial, and that was funded in the Budget. I also do note that announcement has been made in the last 24 hours by Meta. Last week, Prime Minister Albanese announced our intention to introduce legislation this year. So whether or not that's causational or incidental are matters for Meta to determine. But again, our top priority here is keeping Australians safe online, particularly our most vulnerable, our children.
 
JOURNALIST: In Meta’s own words, the proposal was actually prompted by parents and parents’ concerns, that they're doing this to address parents’ concerns. The Government's proposal- the Prime Minister has also said that's to address parents’ concerns. Should Australian mums and dads be satisfied with Meta's changes?
 
ROWLAND: I would point out that this applies to one platform; we're determined to increase safety for children across the board.
 
JOURNALIST: Minister, just one more question on the ABC's coverage in Afghanistan. The 7:30 Report in September 2022 showed a second slab of audio with extra gunshots, in addition to those extra six. So, if there were indeed two separate instances of doctored audio, do you think this can really be called an error, an editing error, as the ABC news director called it?
 
ROWLAND: These are matters for the ABC, they have operational and editorial independence. The facts that you presented to me are extremely disturbing. I will undertake to get further information from the ABC in this regard. But again, I think that this is properly directed to the ABC and I think full transparency should be exercised in understanding those facts and responding to the public because this is our national broadcaster, and we do want Australians to have the utmost confidence in it.
 
JOURNALIST: We’re looking at a blanket ban across social media. Is there any concern that this will push users towards, you know, unregulated platforms that can get around some of the Government's measures? You know, prohibition style bans have always been in the past.
 
ROWLAND: With any online environment, there is always a risk that people will go to sites or platforms that they wouldn't usually go to if they were prohibited. And again, this is something that has been put forward even in terms of wagering, whether this will lead to more people going to illegal, unlicensed, offshore wagering sites. Look, I think those risks are there, but I don't think that that should undermine efforts.
 
We need to acknowledge the problem here and now, and that is that young people are accessing a range of social media platforms, most of which are commonly understood and accessed by the vast majority of Australians. And it is there that they are consuming content in a way that is causing them harm.