Interview with Raf Epstein, ABC Radio Melbourne, Mornings with Raf Epstein

RAF EPSTEIN, HOST: We've had a lot of problems with Triple Zero lately. The Triple Zero call takers who are employed by Telstra, they had significant problems in February and then, you'll remember in November, the big Optus outage. We were assured by Optus on the morning, yes, Triple Zero still works - It did not work for some. You heard people calling into Sammy’s show and ours. The Federal Government has had an investigation into what went wrong, they've got the details of that investigation. Michelle Rowland is the Communications Minister. Good morning, thank you for joining us.

MICHELLE ROWLAND, MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Good morning.

EPSTEIN: What went wrong for Optus?

ROWLAND: There were probably three things that went wrong here and it is useful that the reviewer actually looked at the cause of the Triple Zero outage on the Optus mobile network. So, the first issue went to the fact that when a network is down, the signals from that downed network will actually go and be carried for Triple Zero on one of the alternative networks. So, in this case, either Telstra or TPG-Vodafone. What happened here, however, was what's called a lack of wilting on the Optus 3G network. 

Wilting is where signals on a tower that aren't working are actually powered down. The signal stops trying to look for Optus and goes and looks for an alternative network and the Triple Zero call is carried. In this case, the signals weren't powered down and in some cases what's called automatic wilting didn't occur either. So, it was useful to highlight that. I will point out for your listeners too, that Optus has advised that it has been rectified and that the wilting issue has since been addressed since the outage. 

The second important point is, whilst the Triple Zero system is a complex ecosystem, wherever you are, on whatever network you are, you call Triple Zero, and you get connected to police, fire or ambulance. The review found that the various players in this, including the Emergency Call Person Telstra, were all doing their jobs, but they essentially stayed in their lanes and said, ‘well, I've done what I need to do, so I don't need to do anything more’. 

What the Reviewer has recommended is that we need to have a better consumer focus, and what they've said we need to establish is a Triple Zero Custodian framework. This is going to be led by the Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman and that's really going to bring the consumer back to being central to the Triple Zero service. One of the other key issues was about communications - there is currently a protocol which is essentially a guideline on what carriers need to do in cases of mass outages. The Bean Review determined that this wasn't followed by Optus.

EPSTEIN: It's another voluntary industry code, isn't it?

ROWLAND: That's right. So, this is going to be made mandatory. The Government has accepted all the 18 recommendations and over the next 12 to 18 months, we're going to be implementing all of them. I remember last time I was on your show regarding the Telstra outage earlier in the year, you asked whether we were going to be reviewing the Emergency Call Person contract. I can confirm that following this review, which actually recommended a review and update of regulation, we will be reviewing that contract as well.

EPSTEIN: Okay. So, if I can just go through a few of those things. So, you need the rules to actually be - they've got to follow them or they get in trouble - and you need someone in charge of the system. But just to go back to what you called wilting. The Optus tower is supposed to basically switch off completely so that the Optus phone then goes in search of another tower. What I'm hearing you saying is that didn't happen. Are you confident that Optus have fixed that? I'm just wondering why you're confident that they have fixed it?

ROWLAND: That's the assurances they've given us. I would also point to another one of the Bean recommendations, and that's after a major outage the industry needs to provide work plans to the regulator to explain how they're going to mitigate the risk of a similar outage in future. 

Whilst this has been identified as the issue, it is going to be incumbent on Optus to continue to provide updates - whether they're testing it to make sure that this works properly in future, or they do scenario planning. For example, they will need to report that they've had an outage, we understand what the fault was now, here are the steps that we've taken to mitigate it, and here is our action plan to show that we remain on top of this matter.

EPSTEIN: You mentioned the Telstra problems - I was grateful for Telstra coming on, but the system failures were pretty bad. When the computer didn't work, they had to do things manually. The Telstra call takers had old wrong phone numbers and then they stuffed up the email addresses when they were trying to use email. Are you confident that Telstra is okay with that contract until you review it?

ROWLAND: I note that Telstra conducted its own investigation and admitted these errors, but I think we need to let that contract be reviewed. Certainly, all of those instances in that most recent outage will be considered as part of that review. Exactly as you say, it was unsatisfactory that it moved to manual processes. There was human error involved in many cases. In other cases, the protocols and the guidelines were followed, but it also meant that if other ones weren't, then the system didn't work. This is an ecosystem that relies on everyone doing their jobs properly, but also being in touch with one another to ensure there's no failure.

EPSTEIN: As Communications Minister, I know you know, I'm going to sit here one day in front of a microphone, there's going to be a major bushfire and we can only do so much and I'm sure I could do my job better. The absolute nightmare, and I know you know this, but the absolute nightmare is a whole lot of people trying to call Triple Zero and desperately needing to get through and that not happening when the system is really under pressure. Both these instances with Optus and Telstra, the system was not under significant pressure. This summer, is it going to be okay?

ROWLAND: We're very mindful that unfortunately, as we experience more intense and more frequent natural disasters, including fires, we need to improve resilience overall. We've got a significant number of programs in place to do that. Everything from what we call mobile network hardening, to looking at how we can extend power for longer. 

I'm also very grateful for the engagement I've had with Victorian Minister Williams, who has shared the experience formally through a number of forums and are looking at improvements that can be made in that area. What I would point out also is that this review is actually the first comprehensive review of the Triple Zero ecosystem in over a decade. It's one that we take very seriously, and I’m pleased that it's a report that has 18 recommendations that go to issues of substance we'll be doing and implementing all of those. 

I also hear exactly what you're saying - we want people to have confidence in Triple Zero. There are a number of initiatives that are happening outside the Triple Zero context to make sure that networks are better prepared. We're also very mindful – and this is coming out through our Regional Telecommunications Review - new technologies are being developed that can overcome some of these. Some of your listeners might be familiar with LEOSats, Low Earth Orbit satellites. When the ability comes for having direct to handsets, satellite availability and less reliance on terrestrial or ground infrastructure, such as mobile towers that require power, that will make a significant difference as well. These are areas that we are exploring now and I think it's fair to say that there is no single answer here, but certainly this review that's been handed to the Government and which we have responded to is a very good start.

EPSTEIN: Look, I want to know what people make of everything that the Communications Minister has to say. I will get to calls on 1300 222 774. Michelle Rowland, if I can just shift focus to this national conversation. I do want to ask you about gambling and its role as an accelerant in violence. Before I do, that rally that the PM was at, there's clearly a lot of confusion and a bit of anger at that rally. It looks on the TV tape like the PM lost his cool a bit. There's nothing wrong with that. I think we could you know - that's a weakness many of us might have. He hasn't said sorry. Would that sort of be a useful thing for him to do? Does he need to do that or is all of this a distraction?

ROWLAND: My view is that there is certainly national momentum on this issue and as leaders, we need to seize that momentum. We have a National Plan to eliminate violence against women that requires the cooperation of the States, Territories and the Commonwealth, as well as the input from civil society. I think that our 100% laser-like focus should be - and it should be at National Cabinet tomorrow - to get that implemented, to have serious action plans that do make a difference. I think Governments and leaders, including the Prime Minister, will be judged on their delivery. That is certainly, the feeling of the community. There's a reason why so many people disrupted their weekends for something that they clearly believe in and feel very strongly about.

EPSTEIN. So, you do think the rally was important? Sorry, if I can just ask the question again, Minister, because I'm not sure I heard an answer. At best, the PM was curt. Now, that's not, you know, not a hanging offence, but the PM was at best curt. Do you think he needs to apologise or is all of this a distraction?

ROWLAND: I'm not going to give advice to the Prime Minister on that. My only advice is that each of us, as leaders, with the powers that we have, need to utilise that to respond to what is a very clear message from the Australian public that gender-based violence is out of hand and that Governments, regulators, civil society, need to take action to curb what has become something of a trend. 

I think that the more embedded it gets and the less action that is taken, the more acceptable it becomes and the more people will get frustrated and think that something can't be done about it. I think that that should be our absolute focus, not on individuals, but on actually the root causes and what we can do to improve this.

EPSTEIN: You've spoken about a national momentum towards solutions. You as Communications Minister are considering Peta Murphy's recommendation to ban gambling advertising. There are a tonne of people who work on gendered violence and sexual violence every day - they say that gambling is an accelerant. Does that mean you've got to pick up Peta Murphy's recommendation and ban the gambling ads?

ROWLAND: We're working our way through this very carefully because whilst our focus is on harm minimisation, we want to make sure that this is actually a holistic response that not only stands the test of time, but again delivers real results. 

Whilst you're focusing, I think here on the issue of gambling advertising which we are looking at very closely at the moment, I would point out that more has been done in this space, under this Government than has been done in the previous ten years. For example, having BetStop, the ability to self exclude, that has been taken up by nearly 20,000 people so far in a short space of time. We've also banned the use of credit cards for online gambling. There's a lot of talk about young people being influenced by social media, and the other issue is around games. We've actually amended the classification rules around games for where there is simulated gambling and restricting that availability.

EPSTEIN: But there is a clear national mood - gambling ads drive people nuts - gambling is an accelerant when it comes towards gendered violence. The solution seems obvious, doesn't it, to ban the ads?

ROWLAND: I think for a start, taking into account all of those initiatives we've got the fact that we are working on a comprehensive response in this space that does deal with advertising, but also a large number of other issues as well. I think the public deserves and expects a comprehensive response. We are working through that now with a number of stakeholders and across Government departments. I know that there have been numerous reports, and the late Peta Murphy had this in her report herself, about not only the financial impacts, but also the impacts that are societal and they are very real. We are very mindful of this as we move forward and the need to get improvements in this area. Exactly as I said, with relation to the issue of gender-based violence overall, this will be a Government that will be judged on its delivery. 

We've delivered a lot so far, but there's a lot more to do.

EPSTEIN: I really appreciate your time this morning, thank you.