Interview with Deborah Knight, 2GB Afternoons

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Now, the potholes that we see around not just the cities but the regional areas, it just never seems to be fixed. And of course, with all the wet weather that we’ve had and all the rain, the problems are compounded and they can do a lot more damage to cars, but they’re downright dangerous. And the regional areas, the potholes are rampant. And in Sydney, whether it’s Kellyville, Strathfield, Bondi or Kogarah, you can bet on driving across a pothole. Many local councils just don’t have the money to fix them. And the Federal Government is now being called on to stump up and help out. Well Kristy McBain is the Federal Minister for Local Government, she knows full well the problem of potholes in her own electorate of Eden-Monaro, Minister, welcome to Afternoons.

KRISTY MCBAIN: Good afternoon, Deb. Good to be with you.

KNIGHT: How bad are the potholes in your neck of the woods?

MCBAIN: Like every area, the weather has had a significant impact on the road network. In my three-hour commute to Canberra and back, there are a few.

KNIGHT: It can be dangerous, can’t it?

MCBAIN: Absolutely, it can be. Not just for people running their kids to and from schools, but for all of the freight and logistics that take place on our road networks, especially across our regions. All of that farm produce wanting to get to the shops and all the tourists who we want to come and spend their dollars in our regional communities.

KNIGHT: And you were the mayor of the Bega Valley Shire Council before heading to Canberra, if anyone would be lobbying for more support from the Government on this, surely, it’d be you.

MCBAIN: Absolutely. It’s really important that we do collaborate and work across governments. It’s not just on the Federal Government to deal with roads issues. To that extent, it’s been pleasing to see the NSW Government contribute additional dollars to regional councils, especially across the regions, to deal with the growing issue of road problems.

KNIGHT: But they just don’t have the money to fix it though, the extent of the problem. We’ve seen a lot of councils increase their rates and they’ve got to spend on a whole host of projects, but potholes are an ongoing concern. Why do you think the state governments and the local governments are not able to get on top of this?

MCBAIN: It is a growing problem. One of the things we have seen is the significant weather events we’ve had over the last few years have had a significant impact on that. Years of drought followed by bushfires and then floods have caused roads concerns everywhere. Now we’ve got contractors doing work in a lot of those places, so the cost of fixing those have now gone up. Obviously, we’ve got some supply chain constraints as well. To help address that, we announced an additional $250 million to the Local Roads and Community Infrastructure grant fund.

KNIGHT: But a lot of the local councils say it’s still not enough.

MCBAIN: Absolutely. We want to continue to work with them on how we get more dollars out there, but that additional $250 million went to outer metro, regional rural councils because we know they have the largest roads networks and we want to make sure that we’re dealing with their local priorities.

KNIGHT: It’s also been said that the poor state of our roads is due to the way that we’re governed. The fact that we do have the different levels of government and one hand not talking to the other, should we have an overhaul do you think, of the funding and management of the roads?

MCBAIN: As part of working in collaboration with other levels of government, we’ve had an inquiry running, which is being led by the Member for Solomon, Luke Gosling. He’s been out there working with councils and industry groups and particularly engineer lobby groups about how we can make sure that we are getting the best out of our road networks. Whether there are any practices that happen in other parts of the world that we need to adopt in Australia for our climate, and to make sure that we can get longevity out of our roads. That’s what everyone wants. They want roads made well and made to last.

KNIGHT: The research from the Grattan Institute, though, also shows that many councils don’t even know how many roads they’re responsible for, which beggars belief, doesn’t it?

MCBAIN: Absolutely, it would. As a former Mayor and Councillor, it is one of the things that I had on my very short list of talking points to politicians. We had 1,500 kilometres of road, half sealed, half unsealed, and absolutely we knew exactly where those roads were and what our responsibilities were.

KNIGHT: So, from your time in local government, does more money need to be allocated? Do they need more money to try to get this pothole problem fixed?

MCBAIN: What we need to do as governments at all levels is make sure that we make it easy for our councils to access dollars. The formulaic approach of Roads to Recovery and Financial Assistance Grants helps with that, instead of competitive grant funding. To that end, we’ve reimagined how grants work, especially in our regions. I am always up for conversations. It’s one of the reasons we brought back the Australian Council of Local Governments, so that councils from across the country could sit down and have direct discussions with Ministers from the Albanese Government. I know a lot of them took the opportunity to talk to Ministers, particularly about a number of the services and assets that they wanted funded.

KNIGHT: And do we need more of the fuel excise dedicated to fixing roads?

MCBAIN: It’s important that we look at all options and the Grattan Institute report doesn’t say anything that we didn’t already know. There hasn’t been enough investment in roads. The former Government weren’t taking seriously the role that local councils played across the country, and there was a freezing of indexation on Financial Assistance Grants, which has led to a funding shortfall. We want to work with those councils on how we can get an equitable approach across the board, so that councils can work on the priorities that their communities are asking them to work on. For so many communities, that is about safe transport corridors.

KNIGHT: Yeah, because it’s not just damage to roads, it’s lives being lost. And I’ve had a number of listeners pointing out straight off the bat about, for motorbike riders in particular, that it’s life or death here. Simon in Drummoyne says, “They’re dangerous to cars, potentially lethal to motorcyclists. At 80 kilometres an hour, he says, I’ve got almost no chance to see and avoid a pothole on a country road. A car might damage a tyre, but I might die.”

MCBAIN: We need to make sure that we are dealing with some of those concerns. Our Bridges Renewal Program is another one, because we know for so many communities, we rely on those bridges to get freight to market, but also so many communities have one road in and out and it’s a one lane concrete culvert. So, we’ve been concentrating on making sure that we can work with communities on upgrading bridges as well.

KNIGHT: Yeah, well, we’ll see if there’s some results because we need to have it delivered. The pothole problem just does not seem to be fixed, both in the regions and in the cities. Kristy, thanks so much for joining us.

MCBAIN: Thanks for having me, Deb.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Kristy McBain there. And yeah, the former Mayor from Eden-Monaro and now the Federal Minister for Local Government. So, she knows the problem from her own area where she lives and the drive from Canberra when she goes this sitting this week, of course. Potholes, a massive problem.