Interview with Deborah Knight, 2GB Afternoons

DEBORAH KNIGHT, HOST: Now, good phone coverage in Australia we know is patchy at best, and not just in regional and rural areas. Here in Sydney there are so many mobile blackspots, even though of course it is much worse in parts of the bush.

 

Under the law there's a Universal Service Obligation, and it's a safeguard to guarantee that all of us, all Australians have got access to fixed phone services and pay phones regardless of where we live, and the USO, as it's known, is currently provided by Telstra on the old copper landline system, which, let's face it, is out of date. A lot of people are getting rid of their land lines, they're on the decline.

 

Well, the Federal Government wants to shake up the entire system and make sure that it is fit for purpose. So the Government's opened a consultation process, and they're encouraging communities, especially those in regional and rural areas to submit their ideas.

 

And speaking of Telstra, this is a welcome move ahead of the bushfire season, Telstra's announced an upgrade of all the pay phones in disaster‑prone areas, offering not just free phone calls but free Wi‑Fi, USB charging ports, and even back‑up power, so that you don't find yourself disconnected from the latest information or communication if you're stuck in a disaster, which is a great move.

 

Well, Michelle Rowland is the Federal Communications Minister, and she's on the line for us now. Minister, welcome to Afternoons.

 

MICHELLE ROWLAND, MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Thank you.

 

KNIGHT: This step from Telstra first up, it's smart, upgrading the pay phones in disaster areas.

 

ROWLAND: Pay phones are a part of the Universal Service Obligation, and I think many of your listeners might not be aware just how much they are utilised. There's some one million calls or more that are made each year from various pay phones. They're now free for making those calls, they also offer free Wi‑Fi, and I think one of the most important things about the pay phone services is that they have continued to be innovative, so it's very pleasing to see that Telstra has been utilising that aspect of its Universal Service Obligation.

 

I do think a lot of people, particularly in regional areas, rely on those pay phone services. They are very important, and when you see the millions of calls that are made each year from pay phones, they are certainly not redundant. It might have been the case that people thought they would become unnecessary, and of course being part of the Universal Service Obligation, we're looking at that. 

 

I should just reiterate to you, and all of your listeners, we recognise how important these are, particularly during disasters. The high usage, not only in regional areas where coverage might be scarce in some instances, but also for people who are quite vulnerable being able to utilise that service and make those phone calls is really important.

 

KNIGHT: It is. And Telstra's also announced they want to trial this temporary mobile roaming, so that people can use any available mobile network during natural disasters if the telco services are unavailable, which we saw during the bushfires. It's something the ACCC recommended recently. But it's up to the individual mobile companies to roll it out, isn't it?

 

ROWLAND: Well, this is a very welcome development, and it does follow a significant report by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, and looking at regional mobile infrastructure they found that it is actually technically feasible to offer this temporary emergency roaming during disasters. 

 

And just for your listeners' sake, just to explain what that means: it doesn't matter what carrier you're with, irrespective of whether the infrastructure has been built by Telstra, Optus or Vodafone, for example, you would be able to utilise at least a voice service when you're in that area and your own infrastructure provider's signal is not available.

 

So Telstra ‑ and I should commend Telstra for acknowledging that this is technically feasible, and the industry overall for recognising that technology has moved on. We are progressing this as a Government too. I've tasked my Department and also my colleague, Murray Watt, who's the Minister for Emergency Management, has tasked the National Emergency Management Agency to progress this with the carriers, to report back to government early next year. 

 

But this will require cooperation from industry, but will also require leadership from government. In the end, this is about doing everything we can to make sure that we keep those communications going as long as possible during natural disasters.

 

KNIGHT: And all of that, of course, is going to shape the future of the Universal Service Obligation, which I mentioned in the introduction. But just how outdated is that USO?

 

ROWLAND: Again, you're absolutely right when you talk about all this feeding into it. I mean this is a Universal Service Obligation that's been in place for over 30 years now in its current form, and it basically is defined by reference to a fixed line service, and it is coming to end of life. When the NBN was originally formulated we had a new universal service arrangement with Telstra which expires in 2032, and that is not far away when you consider what's necessary to reform this scheme.

 

KNIGHT: So could Telstra potentially not have responsibility in the future for carrying out the USO?

 

ROWLAND: That's one of the options that we're looking at, but we're looking at it very holistically. Telstra is currently the universal service provider. That is funded through some of its own funding but also through an industry levy, and there's around nearly a quarter of a million dollars a year for the supply of what we call a standard telephone service. 

 

Now, Deb, this is primarily delivered through old copper lines which are being gradually phased out everywhere else as the NBN is upgraded to fibre, fixed wireless or the satellite service is upgraded. We want to take a very future‑looking approach here, because we know that in regional areas, a lot of people are voting with their feet, they're utilising what's called Low Earth Orbit satellites or LEOSats now.

 

KNIGHT: Yeah, 'cause a lot of people in communities are actually pooling their resources too and paying for their own Elon Musk satellite for phone coverage. Would you consider a partnership with Starlink to broaden it out?

 

ROWLAND: What we are looking at is undertaking some trials because people do recognise that, in some cases, that is the form of service that suits them best. And with the development of technology, we know that there is the availability to have direct voice handset to satellite services. Again that will mean that whilst mobile services will continue to be important, the infrastructure won't be terrestrial, it will be provided through satellite.

 

We want to look at what is the best way, the best technological mix, but also recognising that a lot of people still take great comfort from having some sort of fixed line service, so we have to be consultative as a Government.

 

I'm very pleased again that the industry has, including Telstra, has understood that this does need to change; it's not fit for purpose anymore. We need to respond to consumer needs, there just needs to be something that is long‑term, that's sustainable, and I note that we've had much stakeholder feedback on this already.

 

We've been consulting with the National Farmers' Federation, for example, and we'll continue to do so through public consultation, but we're not going to make any decisions that aren't evidence‑based, that aren't based on trials and that certainly, everything we do will be in the long‑term interests of consumers.

 

KNIGHT: And what's the timeline for submissions, because I'll give the website for where people can have their views heard and present their views, but when are you expecting to close the submissions and when should we see some change, some action?

 

ROWLAND: Certainly. Well, we've got this open ‑ we've given it a good period of time until 1 March next year. You can go to my department's website at infrastructure.gov.au and have a look at that consultation paper. We're looking at making an initial report‑back by July next year, but also in between that we're going to be consulting widely on the funding arrangements, doing some technical trials of alternative technologies. We're also utilising in parallel, there's a statutory requirement to have a Regional Telecommunications Review that is undertaken next year. We're going to use the findings from that as well to feed into this process.

 

There will be a lot happening over those few months. But please, all of your listeners, we want them to have their say about how the Universal Service Arrangement should be delivered, and what they have found, what they are concerned about. One of the concerns, Deb, is that there's been talk over many years, more than a decade about the need to reform this scheme. There's a high level of cynicism in the community.

 

KNIGHT: You've got that right.

 

ROWLAND: There is no point putting this off any further, and in fact we can't, the clock is ticking, technology is developing, people are voting with their feet in terms of taking up new technologies. We have to be responsive to that as a Government and also with the industry.

 

KNIGHT: All right. Well, we'll keep a close watch on what emerges from this. But Minister, thanks for joining us.

 

ROWLAND: My pleasure.

 

KNIGHT: The Communications Minister, and if you do want to put forward a view to the discussion paper, the website again, infrastructure.gov.au.