HOST, JAYNIE SEAL: Joining us live is Emergency Minister Kristy McBain. Minister, thank you so much for joining us. So do you think politicians need to keep family members out of politics? 

MINISTER FOR EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT, KRISTY MCBAIN: Good afternoon, Jaynie. It's good to be with you on this beautiful spring day. I think there's been a long-held position that family members were off limits when it comes to political discourse. And unfortunately, Pauline Hanson has brought in the Prime Minister's mum, who's deceased, which I think is just way below the belt. I think it's not something that we want to see emerge in our political life is families being targets during obviously, partisan attacks. 

HOST: So, you agree that politicians need to, to keep family members out of this, is it? There's no consequence, though, is there, in regards to this? 

MCBAIN: No, there's not. But as I said, it's been a long-held bipartisan position that, you know, family members were off limits when it comes to partisan and attacks and politics itself. And I think it's a real shame in Australian politics that you're seeing family members dragged into political discourse. It's not something we want to see. It's not something that I do in my electorate. And I know that, you know, the vast majority of politicians leave families out of it. They are not the people that have, you know, their names on the offices. They are not the people running in elections. So, it is not fair to them because they can't defend themselves in a public forum either. 

HOST: Shadow Industry and Sovereign Capability Minister Andrew Hastie spoke on Sunday Agenda with Andrew Clennell this morning about the world moving on regarding nuclear energy. Here's what he had to say. 

[Clip of Andrew Hastie]

HOST: So, Minister, if we lifted the ban on nuclear in Australia, we could prevent startup companies like Deployable Energy, who were welcomed by the US to construct and invent micro modular reactors. Is this embarrassing that Australia is losing some of our top brains to overseas because simply, we're not lifting that ban? 

MCBAIN: Look, there's always going to be discussion about how we can make sure that we've got energy in this country. We do know that over the course of the last couple of decades, there are a range of companies that have not been investing in coal power plants. My dad was a coal worker, when his plant was privatised in the 90s, the company that bought it then said its use, the end of its use would be in the 2030s and that is still the timeframe that the current owner is sticking to. So, it is a requirement for us to look at what else can be done. Renewable energy has been something that's been deployed across the country now for a couple of decades, at least. Obviously, small modular reactors are talked about frequently, but there is none actually operational anywhere in the Western world. We do know that China is looking at them and Russia says that they have one working, but nowhere else in the Western world do we have small modular reactors. So, I think we've got to have a look at what the technology says and obviously continue to evolve as we move on. Obviously, technology is changing at a rapid rate of knots. If this becomes something that is deployable and doesn't cost taxpayers a lot of money, then obviously it needs to be looked at. But the technology at this stage isn't there. 

HOST: Well, as you mentioned, China and Russia, three small modular reactors are in commercial operation is my understanding. There are multiple small modular reactors being built in Canada and the US. But getting back to startups, Minister, isn't it would you say it's not embarrassing that we've had to see some of our top brains move overseas for a startup with what we're seeing just grow so fast across other parts of the world, including micro reactors which have the potential for baseload power after long term devastations, here in the Pacific, for example, if there was a cyclone. 

MCBAIN: Yeah, and I think the proof will be in the pudding. If those things do come to reality and technology shifts dramatically, obviously we may need to look at it, but at this point in time, it's not there. It's not in operation and we need to look at what's happening around the world. At the same time, we are seeing less money being invested in renewing our coal power plants. So, we've got to start doing something now. We can't be talking about something in 20, 30 or 40 years’ time. We've got energy needs right now and that's why we're moving towards renewable energy, because it is here. We can dispatch them around the country. Gas peaking is incredibly important. Storage is really important as well. So, we need to start moving with the technologies that we have currently. If things continue to change, obviously we'll need to look at that. But we've got an energy problem and we need to address it now, which is exactly what we're doing. 

HOST: Absolutely understand exactly what you're saying, Minister, but when you say they're not in operation. We're looking at startups here, though, Minister, aren't we? And when you mentioned 20, 30 years, my understanding is that these small modular reactors and the micro modular reactors, the MMRs, they are being worked on quite quickly and many people are saying that we are just missing the boat. We understand that that is not going to be our energy source at the moment. But if we lifted the ban, we could have our brilliant minds coming back from America and here starting up what could be revolutionary. Is that not something that the Labor Government should be looking at? 

MCBAIN: Look, we're looking at a whole range of things in this space. Obviously, our Future Made in Australia is all about backing Australian ingenuity. We're backing manufacturing companies across the country. At this point in time, we've got to make sure that the technology exists. We've got to make sure it can be deployed across the country. As I said, technology is going to continue to evolve at a really rapid rate. So, we'll keep an eye on that. But at the moment, with our energy needs now, we're looking at that renewable, that gas peaking, those battery storage. 

HOST: All right. Well, we've got Will Shackle, who's the founder of Nuclear for Australia. He's just been to the US. He's on at about 2:30 Eastern Time today. And he has a lot to say. He's looked at what is happening over there, so it will be very interesting to see what he has to say. But, Minister, if we can turn to Andrew Hastie, who also spoke about the Prime Minister's golf club membership with my colleague Andrew Clennell this morning, here's what he had to say. 

[Clip of Andrew Hastie]

HOST: All right. So, he talks about the honorary member there as well. The Prime Minister has rejected claims, Minister, of the grant to the golf club. $560 million that program, some would say, amounts to pork barrelling. Do you think this is pork barrelling? 

MCBAIN: Absolutely not. I mean, it's a well known part of our democracy that political parties will make election commitments in an election. You've obviously got to fulfil those election commitments. Even the member for Riverina a few days ago said, you've got to actually fulfil your election commitments. If the Opposition won government with their election commitments totalling over $1.5 billion, three times what our election commitments were, they also would have had to have a process to fulfil them. But when it comes to declaring a range of honorary memberships, I believe the Prime Minister is an honorary social member, which amounts to about $2.50 a year. You know, I'm a member of various sporting and social clubs across my electorate. You know, I enjoy going to the club to have a meal and a drink with family and friends. And so it's declared on mine as ‘various sporting and social clubs’ because, you know, you sign up to these things or you're given honorary membership of, you know, various organisations. I'm an honorary member of the Marimbula Pambula Lions Club. So, I think it's important that we put this in context. He's not a golf player. He doesn't go there a lot. He's been made an honorary social member, which is $2.50 a year. But juxtapose that with what the Coalition and various political parties are trying to say about pork barrelling. This is a closed round of commitments that we made at an election. It's very different to the more than $2 billion in open, competitive grants that we have already unveiled through Growing Regions, through Thriving Suburbs. And those are judged by an independent panel in the department on their merits. And there's been various projects already funded throughout the country. So, to conflate the two things, an election commitment as opposed to open and competitive grants, I think is disingenuous to the Australian public. 

HOST: So, just to clarify, Minister, that you're saying that the grant to the golf club, in his own electorate for $560 million for the golf club is not pork barrelling. 

MCBAIN: So, it's not $560 million. That's the total of our entire election commitment process. 

HOST: So, the grant, though, and what he had spent on that golf club is not pork barrelling?

MCBAIN: No, I don't believe so. I mean, we make a range of commitments based on what councils tell us. You know, I've made election commitments based on what my councils have been advocating for, for infrastructure for their community. My understanding is, in this case, Inner West Council had been lobbying for funds to go to the golf club so that their sewerage plant could be upgraded so it didn't overflow into the river. So, really important that we talk about the things that are happening. In my part of the world obviously, we've made some commitments to the Bega pool, for example, which was opened in the 50s and 60s, is 33 metres long. You've got to use 20 cents to get any hot water out of the showers. That's been the council's number one advocacy priority for a decade now. So, I think it's really important to understand in elections, you do talk to a lot of partners, including community groups and councils, and we're trying to deliver the infrastructure that communities are after. 

HOST: Emergency Minister Kristy McBain. Great to see you as always. Thank you so much. Great to chat. Great to have your company.