MELISSA CLARKE, HOST: Kristy McBain is the Minister for Emergency Management and she joined me a short time ago. Kristy, we can see you're on the move at the airport there, so we'll bear with any background noise that we might get. But the Australian Communications and Media Authority has started an investigation into Optus' Triple-0 failure. Is this an Optus problem or is this a problem across the whole telco sector?

MINISTER FOR EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT, KRISTY MCBAIN: Well, good afternoon, Melissa. It's great to be with you. Clearly, this is an issue that Optus has had that they're attempting to address. And what I would say is that every telecommunications company across the country has obligations under Australian law to make sure that their customers can access emergency calling and emergency operators using our Triple-0 system. This 13-hour outage, not only was it not reported to state or territory authorities, it wasn't reported to the Federal Government or our National Situation Room, and obviously it wasn't reported to emergency operators. There's a big issue here that Optus needs to address in their processes and I would say that Australians need to have confidence that when they dial Triple-0 that they're going to get through to someone when they're in need.

HOST: I think we can all understand that sometimes there might be IT failures, but this failure to notify others when the problems were happening, does that suggest a problem with the corporate culture at Optus?

MCBAIN: Clearly there's an issue with the processes there. You know, if you've been able to identify that there is an issue with your Triple-0 calling, there should have been an immediate notification to the National Situation Room so we could get out mass communications. There should have been notification to those state and territory governments and to those local emergency service operators. It is a real problem that it took so long for Optus to notify anyone of this potential issue and unfortunately, there's been some very real consequences for families across the country.

HOST: Is it a failure of process or is it a failure of investment in the requisite levels of backup that you need for these programs, or both?

MCBAIN: Well, ACMA is investigating and they'll obviously be working with Optus on that, and Optus needs to come out and fully explain what has happened here. But what we do know is this is the second time in only a couple of years where Optus has had a Triple-0 failure. What they should have been doing is investing money in their processes and in their systems to ensure that it didn't happen again after the 2023 incident. Clearly, they haven't done that. And what I would say is that Australians want to have confidence that when they call Triple-0 in their hour of need, that someone is going to be on the other end of the line to answer and to dispatch an emergency service personnel to you. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened and Optus is going to have some very real questions to answer here. And obviously ACMA is now undergoing that investigation.

HOST: So, ACMA has the ability to fine telcos and they did that last time around in that Optus outage two years ago. Is that enough of a penalty though? Do we need to look at having tougher penalties given it seems the penalty dished out last time wasn't enough incentive to make sure processes were corrected?

MCBAIN: Well, after the 2023 outage, there was a full review done and 18 recommendations put in place. We accepted all of those recommendations. As I understand it, Optus had implemented 12 of those 18 recommendations. They will have some questions to answer on why they haven't gone through with that full suite of recommendation implementation. But obviously the communications Minister will be looking closely at this and we'll see what the ACMA investigation uncovers and we'll go from there.

HOST: But from a legislative point of view, is tougher penalties something that you need to be considering?

MCBAIN: Look, ACMA have a range of penalties that they can currently issue in front of them. We'll wait to see what their investigation uncovers and we'll go from there, as I said.

HOST: The provision of these emergency call procedures is something the telcos are required to deliver. It's certainly an essential service. There are probably plenty of Australians wondering if there isn't a greater role for government in providing an essential service rather than private operators. What do you think about the potential for a greater role for government in providing these services? Or do you think it rightly sits with the private providers?

MCBAIN: Look, we can go back in history and, you know, perhaps lament that Telstra was privatised in the 90s when it was a government-owned telecommunications company, and it invested in those services, but also invested probably more in rural and regional communities. We now have private operators and they're beholden to their shareholders. But what I think that customers will be doing out there right now is reconsidering their telco operator or their choice of telco operator, and they'll be able to vote with their feet on this. As I said, we will now wait to see what the ACMA investigation says. And if there needs to be some stronger legislative provisions, I'm sure the Communications Minister will look at that.

HOST: The telcos are meant to be working on sharing infrastructure during disasters so that if they are having problems with outages in really critical times, they can work with each other's networks. Can you tell us how that is going?

MCBAIN: Yes, obviously there are a range of recommendations that were put in place following the Black Summer Royal Commission around telco infrastructure sharing. NSW did their own inquiry as well. It's up to the telco operators now to actually get on and do those things and we will continue to monitor that progress.

HOST: Now, just moving to a related, but different topic is we had the National Climate Risk Assessment report released last week and some of the consequences that it warns of a global warming climate on Australian households. Some of that certainly goes to emergencies and times when communication is an issue. So, can I ask, is the 62 to 70 per cent target for 2035, that the government announced last week, is that of enough of a contribution from Australia to try to limit global warming, given how dire the outcomes are according to this risk assessment?

MCBAIN: Look, I think there are not many people in this country who are going to object to the science of climate change. It shows us that we are going to have more intense and more frequent natural disasters. And we see that playing out across our country, particularly over the last 10 years. In the last couple of months alone, we've had significant droughts in South Australia and Victoria. At the same time, we've had multiple flooding events in NSW and Queensland. At a time where we've seen a tropical cyclone come further south than it ever has before. So, we know we need to invest not only in dealing with climate change, but also in dealing with risk reduction. And that's why, when we came to Government in 2022, we put in place our Disaster Ready Fund, $200 million a year, matched by states and territories, to start looking at how we reduce risk and mitigate risk for communities across the country. We've now had over 200 projects roll out across the country and we're just about to announce our Round Three successful grant applications to look at how we further reduce risk. But it's also about making sure that we are prepared enough in local communities. And there's a whole range of disaster preparedness happening as we move into the High Risk Weather Season in communities that are particularly at risk.

HOST: And can I ask just specifically about the issue of insurance? Because insurance companies for some time have been warning about the pressure that catastrophic events put on their business. And this report suggests many Australian homes will become uninsurable. Are there lessons from the Black Summer bushfires and some of the more recent flooding and cyclone events that we've had that we can draw on to try and deal with this problem of uninsurability?

MCBAIN: Yes, obviously, insurance affordability and availability has been an issue now for about 10 years. We have instituted, since 2022, the Hazards Insurance Partnership. It's a partnership between the Federal Government, the Insurance Council of Australia, and every insurer across the country. We are now sharing disaster risk data right across the country. Every insurance company is doing that. We're looking at how we can make sure that investment by either federal or state governments or local councils can reduce premiums for households across the country. So, looking at, in particular, where that risk sits and how we can make sure our investment matches it, so insurance companies can lower the premiums for households, making sure we've got a national insurance data set that we can rely on. And really working closely with the insurance companies, my colleague, the Assistant Treasurer, Dan Mulino, and I, and my Assistant Emergency Management Minister, Josh Wilson, are really invested in making sure that the Hazard Insurance Partnership, which is world-leading, delivers something for households across the country.

HOST: Alright, Kristy McBain, we'd better let you get your flight. Thanks very much for joining us on Afternoon Briefing.

MCBAIN: Thanks for having me.