3AW Melbourne Drive with Heidi Murphy

HEIDI MURPHY: I mentioned before the news I'll be speaking to the Federal Minister Catherine King to talk through what her mediator has said on airport rail. 

She received the report in early June, it was released to us yesterday afternoon in executive summary form. Apparently it is in the ‑ not in the public interest for the full report to be released, so says the mediator. 

To talk us through what is ‑ where the Federal Government's thinking currently is at on airport rail. Catherine King, Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government. Thanks for your time this afternoon. 

CATHERINE KING: Really good to be with you, Heidi. 

HEIDI MURPHY: Minister, it seems as though your mediator's report didn't tell us a lot that we didn't know. 

CATHERINE KING: Well, what the mediator's report has done is provided a pathway for us to progress parts of this project now. 

HEIDI MURPHY: But not the important parts, right? 

CATHERINE KING: So the first thing ‑ lots of the important parts. So the first thing has said that we should do is the Commonwealth should work with the Victorian State Government on Sunshine station, and to ‑ and that's a quite a big project to actually bring that to fruition to allow it to enable airport rail. So that's several billions of dollars required to actually do that. So we'll start work immediately to talk with the Victorian State Government about what the costs are of that and to look at how we can do that. 

It's also said that the initial business case, or the business case that's been done for airport rail, that we need to redo the modelling on Tullamarine Freeway because really it looks as though that is now ‑ with the population growth along there is clearly showing that the project is needed sooner. And so we'll do that, we'll fund Infrastructure Australia to do that.  

And then it's saying to the airport, it's saying that we've done a business case already. All of the work on costings, everything that we know about this project is based on an above ground station, and that's the premise on which both the Commonwealth and the State's money is committed. 

If the airport really says the only viable option that it wants to be brought forward is an underground station, it now needs to do the work, the business case, the geo [indistinct] needs to do drilling, look at whether tunnelling is possible where they're suggesting. We'll need to submit that business case to Infrastructure Australia and then the Victorian Government and the Commonwealth will obviously have discussions about what further investment might be possible. But they'll need to do that, and we'll get on with the work of getting Sunshine station ready and making sure the corridor's ready for when this is settled, that we can get on with it. 

HEIDI MURPHY: The when this is settled part is now likely to be ‑ it's sounding further and further back? 

CATHERINE KING: Well I think that really it's now up to the parties, so Victoria and the airport, to really work together and, you know, that's really where we've been up to for a little while now ‑ 

HEIDI MURPHY: For a fair ‑ for a fair while. 

CATHERINE KING: ‑ We've worked together on that, but we're giving an opportunity to the airport. If they are saying it absolutely can only go underground, then they need to do the work to show that and to show how much it costs. 

That business case hasn't been done. The business case and costings are only for an above ground station at the moment, and that is with them, and until they've done that work we can't contemplate a below ground station at the moment. It's an above ground station. That's where the project will be going. But the airport, if they're saying that's the only way it can happen, they need to do the work, they need to invest some money in the business case and they need to do that work. 

HEIDI MURPHY: Something that State figures have said to me repeatedly is, "It's your land" ‑ well it's Commonwealth land. It's your land, Minister, can't you just come in over the top of the tenant and make them do it? 

CATHERINE KING: Well, it's our land but it was leased, and they have a ‑ Melbourne Airport has a lease, a long‑term lease. That was when the airport was privatised that that lease was allowed and under a lease condition they're entitled to quiet enjoyment of that land, and that's really, they have to bring forward any major development proposal for that to happen. That's sort of where we are. 

I wish I owned the airport. We own Western Sydney International Airport. I don't own the airport. We wouldn't have to ask if I did. That wasn't a decision that my government made, to sell the airports off, and that's where we are. And they're long‑term leaseholders and under the airports Act, they've got rights under the airport Act, and they have to bring forward any proposals that they want for major developments at the airport. 

HEIDI MURPHY: I guess the frustration for people would be ‑ let me read you a couple of lines from your mediator's letter. "Essentially there is a fundamental misunderstanding and misalignment between the airport's expectations and the State's expectations. Major point of contention is the design of the rail link and the station at the airport, whether it's underground or whether there's an elevated installation".  It sounds like even after all of the work that the mediator's done we are still in the exact same position we have been for four, five years now, stuck at loggerheads. 

CATHERINE KING: Well I think what the mediator ‑ yeah, well what the mediator ‑ what I asked the mediator to do was to try and see where can we get progress, where can we get agreement, and obviously they've provided these three areas where they think it's important that they can progress Sunshine station at a no regrets basis. 

We can relook at the modelling to see the time needed in terms of Tullamarine. And then the airport, if it is as I said, absolutely adamant that the only contemplation that it will have and the only thing that it thinks is viable is an underground station, it's now got to do the work and actually see how much that's going to cost. It can't use business cases from other airports around the world. It can't do any of that stuff. It's actually got to invest money in doing the business case, submit that to Infrastructure Australia for assessment because that's the basis on which I will make any decisions about Australian taxpayer money being invested. I'll need to know how much something's going to cost, is it deliverable, is it viable? So that's really on the airport now to do that work.

HEIDI MURPHY: The remodelling on the traffic, the capacity of the Tullamarine Freeway, what makes you think it's going to reach capacity sooner than what was currently flagged? 

CATHERINE KING: Yeah, so well that's really the question we'll ask Infrastructure Australia to look at for me. I think that anyone who utilises that, and I travel to the airport fairly frequently as well along there, I think the population growth that we're seeing just in that part of Melbourne in particular has seen demand go up. And as that, you know, road is the only way you can get into the airport at the moment it is getting congested more quickly, but really we need to just look at the modelling to see whether that's actually the case or not. Because that also then effects the cost benefit that Infrastructure Australia will look at in terms of the rail project. 

HEIDI MURPHY: The spend around Sunshine station you said several billion. We go halvies or ‑‑ 

CATHERINE KING: Yeah, that would be ‑ at the moment it's 50/50. So the State's already put ‑ has already spent quite a lot of money moving all the services, power poles, et cetera. So it's already done that work. The station itself will also cost quite a bit and we'll talk to the State about what that looks like. 

HEIDI MURPHY: Your mediator, Neil Scales, wrote it is his strong view that the report not be published as it would not in his opinion be in the public interest. Why would it not be in the public interest for us to see it all, Minister? 

CATHERINE KING: A couple of things. It contains some significant commercial in confidence information from the airport, so that's the first thing. 

HEIDI MURPHY: Well see I'm interested in seeing that. I'm interested. 

CATHERINE KING: I'm sure. I think there is interest and then there is public interest. 

HEIDI MURPHY: Yeah, right. 

CATHERINE KING: And then the other is the Commonwealth/State relations just in terms of how the Commonwealth and States have been working through some of these issues. So we've respected that that's his view. We've provided the report where we can and much of the report to the two parties so that they've got the same information before them that I have. But that's really what the mediator has requested. And I know people are interested in it, but that's what he's requested, and I respect that that's correct having read it. But I think it's not in the public interest to release the whole thing. I want to get this issue resolved and done and [indistinct]. 

HEIDI MURPHY: We'd all like it resolved and done, it just doesn't ‑ I had hoped this mediator would take us a big step closer and it doesn't feel like ‑ I appreciate what you're saying about the remodelling and about the Sunshine station, sure, but ‑‑ 

CATHERINE KING: They've taken us a little bit more [indistinct]. So the no regrets work at Sunshine station, you know. We have to do that anyway. Like we actually have to do that and so let's get on ‑ you know, I think really what Victoria and the Commonwealth will do together is get on with doing that bit. We have to do that anyway. So that when we can get this resolved, then we can be ready to go. 

But it does require goodwill. It requires goodwill particularly from the airport to say, you know, we're giving them an opportunity to prove the case that they're saying, it can only be underground, but they need to do the work in order to show that. 

HEIDI MURPHY: All right. While Neil Scales says he cannot recommend detailed consideration of an underground station at this time, he does write I think that it's an option that it could be considered in the future in conjunction with other projects, such as Suburban Rail Loop. The airport part of Suburban Rail Loop is decades and decades and decades away. 

CATHERINE KING: Which is again why the modelling on Tullamarine is really important, 'cause this is needed ‑ like it is clear. The airport is under pressure. We know that. We know that certainly in terms of the traffic that's going in, the only way you can get into the airport really is by road, obviously whether it's by bus or in your car. They're the two options you've got. And so therefore, like that modelling's important to look at the timing. But until the end final issue's resolved, like we don't want to build something and then just leave people having to, you know, walk substantial period of space to get to the airport. We've got to actually bring it into the airport site itself. 

HEIDI MURPHY: All right. And just on Suburban Rail Loop, since I've mentioned the acronym, I will ask you ‑‑ 

CATHERINE KING: Yeah, sure. 

HEIDI MURPHY: You mentioned taxpayer dollars and before you commit taxpayer dollars you need to be sure it's viable and it's good value for money and it stacks up, and I know you don't have all of the information that you need from the State just yet. I wondered more about your view; the State expects $10 billion from the Federal Government for it. Has the Albanese Government given the impression that it's coming our way, Victoria's way? 

CATHERINE KING: What we've done is ‑ so we made an early commitment, I think $2.2 billion, to Suburban Rail East to those early works, and that is done under what's called the National Land Transport Act. The State will have to provide information to us before any of that funding can be released, and they're yet to do that. And then if there's any further investment, there's more information that they need to provide to Infrastructure Australia so that Infrastructure Australia, which is the Commonwealth's advisor on infrastructure investment, to whether it's ready for investment. And that still is under way as far as I'm aware. Infrastructure Australia is independent of me, they haven't ‑ I think they're still looking at that work before it can. 

But what I would say about Suburban Rail Loop and I know there's lots of controversy around cost and those sorts of things, and that's really important, it's important that that's scrutinised, but it really will change the way in which Melbourne works, and I think that opportunity for us to have, you know, people working and living around existing public transport hubs and then connecting those in a different way, I've seen, you know, if you head across over to Western Australia, if anyone's travelled on METRONET there, that's exactly what they've done there. It's, you know, a more linear project, but they're building, you know, brand new suburbs. They're actually looking at where industrial land was and developing housing and recreational facilities, parks, all around train stations. And really that's what Suburban Rail Loop is for Victoria, it's METRONET over in Perth, and we've invested billions of dollars in that, but we've got more information that's needed before that. 

HEIDI MURPHY: It sounds like you're pretty keen on it though. 

CATHERINE KING: Well I think that in terms of a, you know, in terms of a change in a project when you look at what the Commonwealth wants to do with infrastructure investment, we very much want to look at those city shaping, those things that really change productivity, the way people move about, where people can live and access public transport, and this project does do that, but obviously we want to be, we want lots of surety about the cost, we want, you know, lots of surety about the cost benefit ratio of projects before we make that investment, and that's really why Infrastructure Australia, we've put them back at the heart of helping decision‑making from the Commonwealth's point of view. 

HEIDI MURPHY: I'd like there to be some fresh modelling around patronage and things in the post‑COVID era, but that's by the by. 

Just finally, Catherine King, how comfortable are you with States signing up to more contracts for a project like this when they're expecting such a significant portion but don't have a guarantee of it from the Federal Government, is it sensible? 

CATHERINE KING: Well of course they bear the risk of that. That is entirely decisions that governments make all the time, that they bear the people signing the contract and they bear the risk of that. We've been pretty clear that our investment is 2.2 billion on early works at Suburban Rail East, and that's the commitment that we've made. Any further investment really is subject to those Infrastructure Australia processes that we've outlined to them. 

HEIDI MURPHY: I think we bear the risk of it. 

CATHERINE KING: Well that's, you know, obviously in terms of the broader ‑ where the money comes from, but that is a matter for the State to make those decisions as to how it's going to fund things. 

HEIDI MURPHY: All right. Catherine King, thank you for your time this afternoon. I appreciate it. 

CATHERINE KING: Good to be with you and I am on team spearmint leaves as well. 

HEIDI MURPHY: Yes. 

CATHERINE KING: I really like them, they're delicious. 

HEIDI MURPHY: I don't know if they've got just odd taste buds, the younger generation, Catherine, I don't know what it is. I love them, I'm glad them back. 

CATHERINE KING: They're really good. I really like them. 

HEIDI MURPHY: I'm glad you endorse them also. 

CATHERINE KING: I'm pretty glad there was a ‑ unfortunately my favourite lolly shop out at [indistinct] has shut down now, but every time I'd go there that is what I'd buy. 

HEIDI MURPHY: Yes, good. That's two votes for spearmint leaves. Catherine King, appreciate it. The Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, and for spearmint leaves. It's not on her official job title but I think we should add it in.