Transcript - ABC Ballarat - Steve Martin

STEVE MARTIN: Now, as I mentioned, over the weekend thousands of people rallied across the country demanding some sort of action to prevent violence against women.

So far, as I understand it, 27 women have been killed, allegedly by men in Australia this year; that's almost double compared to the same period last year.

Locally, it's been a major issue as we know.  That's following the deaths of Samantha Murphy, Rebecca Young and Hannah McGuire, and that was over just a 60‑day period.

Yesterday the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, has called a National Cabinet meeting of State and Territory leaders, but that's got us wondering what's realistically able to happen from the Federal Government, or the State Government for that matter, in a space like this.

Catherine King is the Federal Member for Ballarat. She's with me in the studio. Catherine King, good morning.

CATHERINE KING: Good morning, good to be with you, Steve.

STEVE MARTIN: First up, before we get to the nuts and bolts of this, we've seen the local anger about what has been happening here in the last little while. What do you make of the national reaction to some of those numbers I've just run through?

CATHERINE KING: Well, I think that what we're seeing nationally, I guess, is reflective of how people here have been feeling as well. I think the original march organised by Sissy Austin, you know, there was well over a thousand people attended that, and it was extraordinary, and incredibly important for this community to acknowledge the lives lost of those three women, but you know, as well as ensuring that we really sent a very clear signal about what this community was thinking, and now obviously that's spread.

The What Were You Wearing movement, which started out of the regional community of Newcastle organised these rallies nationally yesterday, and I think the response of communities is just reflective of how people are feeling, just really frustrated, about how can this still be happening.

There is a lot of money being put in, you know, we've had a Royal Commission here in Victoria, you know, millions and millions of dollars was put in as a result of that, not just services, but into prevention, into law changes.  

Nationally we've been doing the same, and I think there is a sense of frustration amongst women and the men who love them about what is happening that this, you know, keeps occurring in our community, and how can we keep our women and girls safe.

STEVE MARTIN: All right. There is a call to action as a result of this, and a call to action from governments, State and Federal. Practically what can be done? You've been in government and politics for a long time, so you'd know, you understand the nuts and bolts ‑‑

CATHERINE KING: Yep.

STEVE MARTIN: ‑‑ of bureaucracy and government. So what do you think can be done?

CATHERINE KING: Well, governments alone can't change how people act and behave, like that's, you know, that is a fact, you just can't change people's behaviour, but you can fund services and actions that do work on educating people and prevention.

So, for example, money that goes to the organisation called Our Watch, in fact it's run by Patty Kinnersly, who is a local, used to be with Womens Health Grampians, that's a national prevention organisation. Our Watch is doing terrific work on actually looking at behavioural attitude shifts, how we raise boys, what's happening in a whole raft of settings and how people can help, and I'd encourage people to really look at their website, look at the tools available for businesses, for community sporting organisations, to think about how you have conversations in every setting where boys are, and that's everywhere.

So that's the first thing, is funding those sorts of things. Then legal changes, so changes like Family and Domestic Violence Leave, so often women were saying, you know, their economic security's really critical. Often they've been removed from the workplace, or if they are, it's really difficult for them to get time off work where they're, you know, they're able to be safe without telling their partner that that's what they're doing, to go and seek help for services, so being able to talk to employers about having leave, that's now an entitlement within your leave provision, so you can actually go and ask for leave, and employers need to understand and know that.

Education of service professionals as well, understanding that if women come forward and say something has happened, that they should be believed that that is what has happened, and that that's your immediate starting point. You need to work with them to then work out what support and services.

So there's a lot of that work been happening, legal changes and those sorts of things. I think, you know, I can reel off all the money that's going in all of that. But the reality is we do have a crisis; we can see it, we've seen it here in this community, and it is an all‑in effort.

I think governments can fund services, can fund prevention, can change laws, but we can't change the behaviour of every single man, and let's be honest here, it is predominantly men who are committing this violence, I know there are occasions when that is not the case, but it is predominantly men who have to change, and that is what I think, really, the hard work is everybody's work.

STEVE MARTIN: So, and Catherine, I was just writing this down, you talk about Our Watch, which is doing that good work, but the family violence leave, the domestic violence leave, that's on women to access. What you didn't mention necessarily was programs for behaviour change for men.

CATHERINE KING: Yeah, there are ‑‑

STEVE MARTIN: That's a difficult area.

CATHERINE KING: Yeah, it is, and there are ‑ again, there is funding going into behaviour programs for men. We've had a terrific one here in this community run out of Child and Family Services for a long period of time, and I've heard really good things about that. I haven't got it off the top of my head.

STEVE MARTIN: Is that the Create Respect ‑‑

CATHERINE KING: Yeah, that's correct, and then there is also ‑ there is a national help line, I just don't have it off the top of my head, but encourage ‑ it's not hard to find, for men, if you are feeling like this.

But of course the very first thing that has to happen is men have to recognise that there's something not right, that they need to change and that something is not right about the level of anger they're feeling, the feeling they need to control women, all of those things.

And that is hard, and that takes ‑ to be honest, it takes ‑ if you're with your mates and they say something, you're actually not normalising that what they're saying is okay, actually calling them out and saying, "Hey, mate, have you thought about that? Do you think what you're saying is all right?" Or "I'm a bit worried about the way you're speaking about your wife or your partner, or you're speaking about women."  And that's really hard to do.

And I've got a 15‑year‑old boy, and I know what that peer group is like, but it's really important, because if men are going to change, then they need to know that they need to change, and that's a really hard thing to confront.

STEVE MARTIN: Yeah. Speaking of boys, I have a son a little bit older than yours, and from time to time some of the comments that are made in jest, they still take me a little bit by surprise, and I think of that in relation to the Create Respect Program from CAFS.  

They had a pilot project that they were running in schools, and the feedback from the schools, and I was talking with Wendy Sturgess about this just a couple of weeks ago, the feedback from schools was showing that it was worthwhile, and it was doing, but they couldn't secure long‑term funding, so they had to end that project, and think haven't been able to get it up and going again.

So in that context, for something like the project out of CAFS, is the funding for anti‑violence or behaviour change programs to your mind secure enough for some of these organisations?

CATHERINE KING: Well, I think that, you know, certainly in terms of the direct service provision they have, and these of course are funding by the States, we give money to the States to do that service provision as well, so the funding for those, but whether there's an expansion needed of other services, I think that is why the Prime Minister's asked for National Cabinet to convene on Wednesday, to have a look about what more we can do.

There's a lot of ideas out there about programs in schools. And I've had the same experience of you, it's not so much, and I hear ‑ my son will be listening to gamers on Discord, and you know, you suddenly hear something that comes across, and you know, as parents, I've heard him say a couple of things as well, and I'll sit down and jump on him pretty quickly, and say, "Hang on, have a think about that. What do you mean by that? Where did you hear it?"

STEVE MARTIN: "Where does this come from" sort of stuff.

CATHERINE KING: Yeah, and so I've had that too, but not every parent's got the resources to do that, and that's hard, so schools are really important. But sporting clubs, places where boys are, are really important as well.

And so I think, you know, where that issue around prevention is, I think there is, you know, there clearly is not enough we are doing in the prevention space, and I think that will be one of the things that we talk about at National Cabinet.

As I said, Our Watch is terrific, the CAFS work is terrific, it's very localised, but we need to look at, you know, prevention is clearly one of the areas that we've got some real problems in.

STEVE MARTIN: And see, and I guess I asked that in the context I've heard in the last 24 hours talk about bail laws and some of the policing end of things. That's generally after the fact.

CATHERINE KING: Yep.

STEVE MARTIN: And for the sort of results that the protesters and marchers seem to want, you've got to get in front of that; that's the really difficult thing.

CATHERINE KING: Well, I think you have to do all of those things. You've got to make sure that there are services for women who are escaping violence, like you need to be able to make sure, and that's always challenging, making sure that there are enough services, and so I think, you know, there's been more money put into that space, but again, is that enough currently, is of course the question.

I think but, also, as you say, you've got to try and look at prevention. It is really ‑ like that is really ‑ if we're going to end this, that is the only way we're going to end it, and that requires an all‑in effort.  

So governments can fund services, but we've all got to be part of it and part of that conversation every day in every setting.

STEVE MARTIN: Catherine King, I did mention earlier you've been in politics a long time. I've been in the media a long time, and we've been having this conversation for a very long time generally speaking. So in that context do you think finally there's enough community member anger that things will change? Do you have confidence in that or not?

CATHERINE KING: I think that, you know, I've been, you know, my original work was as a social worker in my 20s, and that, so I've been in this space for a long time, I have seen this.

I think that what I am seeing is a much greater awareness amongst the general public that something is really not right, that there is a really big issue that we've got to deal with, and I think if, you know, anything that happens out of the deaths here in Ballarat, it really should be that there's a willingness to think about, to talk about and to change, and I think that it would be an incredible ‑ awful, but incredible legacy for those women.

And I think I feel that we're in a sort of point in time where there are a lot of women really clearly saying, "Well, we're not putting up with this, like this is enough." And that's really different. And so I have great hope that people can change, but as I said, it's an all‑in effort.

If you're in a workplace, if you're in your real estate agency ‑ you know, today, and someone says something to the receptionist, or someone says something to the other real estate agent and it is not okay, you've got to call it out, and that is, as I said, not an easy thing to do 'cause they're difficult conversations to have, particularly with people you know, and who might have had these attitudes for a while, but it's really important, and every single one of us has to be part of that change.

STEVE MARTIN: Just finally, the National Cabinet meeting of State and Territory leaders, do you know when that's scheduled for?

CATHERINE KING: It's Wednesday, I don't know what time.

STEVE MARTIN: It is Wednesday.

CATHERINE KING: But on Wednesday it's happening.

STEVE MARTIN: We'll have to wait and see what comes from that. Thanks for your time this morning.

CATHERINE KING: You are most welcome.

STEVE MARTIN: Catherine King is the Federal Member for Ballarat, of course Federal Government Minister as well, but a reaction to some of those rallies that have been happening nationally, and of course locally as well.