Interview with 3AW Drive

JACQUI FELGATE: I spoke to Catherine King, the Federal Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, just before I went to air and the Aviation White Paper, as I said, it was released. And essentially, what they’re doing is looking at ways they can improve the aviation industry, so cancelled flights, delayed flights, communications with customers and bookings. And I started by asking Catherine King, the Federal Minister, about the duopoly between Qantas and Virgin and whether or not this was the number one thing customers were concerned about?

CATHERINE KING: I think the number one thing that passengers are concerned about is getting what they paid for. I think, post-COVID we’ve certainly seen concerns, you know, people really struggling to get refunds to get the service that they’ve actually paid for. And trying to lift the on-time performance of airlines, which we’ve seen some improvement of but, of course, is nowhere near where it should be. And that’s really been the concentrate– you know, the work that we’ve been trying to do both in February, we announced this year major reforms to the way in which slots, the demand management system at Sydney Airport, works. Because that acts as a constraint on other airports and other airlines as well. And then, today, announcing the suite of measures for both consumer rights and also improvements for services, with people with disabilities. 

JACQUI FELGATE: So, can you take me through consumer rights and what we should be entitled to? 

CATHERINE KING: Well, what we’ve done today is announced that the Government will introduce an aviation-specific industry ombudsperson, and that scheme is really directed specifically at aviation– at airlines and at airports. So, it will provide an opportunity for people to lodge complaints when they don’t think they’ve been treated fairly and reasonably by the airline or the airport, and a mechanism in order to seek a remedy. Now, that remedy may well be a refund, it may be compensation, it might be another service, but providing that opportunity for that to occur.

The ombudsperson will also be responsible for developing a very clear Charter of Rights so that the expectations of what customers are entitled to across fares will also be very clear. At the moment, when you buy a ticket from your airline, you’ve got to go down into the terms and conditions and there’s quite a range of those and most people don’t do that. You’re looking for the cheapest fare to get where you need to go as quickly as you possibly can, generally, and really ensuring that people’s rights under Australian Consumer Law are actually enforced, but also that they’re clear for people and that they’re consistent and that they’re fair and reasonable as well. And I don’t think any fair-minded person would say that’s what’s been happening in aviation at the moment. I think there’s been attempts at it, but it’s really not working for consumers. 

JACQUI FELGATE: I’d agree with that. And when a flight is cancelled, just to go back to your point about what you’re entitled to, how much of a cash refund could people expect? Can you give any more detail on that? 

CATHERINE KING: Well, that will be a matter for the ombudsperson to develop that. So, we’ve put a consultation paper out today that canvasses some of those issues. We will need to legislate this next year and that will be part of what the ombudsman does. What I’ve done in the meantime is put someone into an interim position in my department, they’ll start developing that charter up and start doing that consultation work, and people will be able to start making complaints from next year. 

In essence, it’s got two purposes. The first is to try and provide a remedy for people and somewhere for people directly to go, rather than being stuck on phones and trying to enforce your rights or understand your rights, and that can take a long period of time to do, so having that dedicated place, but also looking at continuous improvements. So, we know in the telecommunications industry, for example, the reporting of the volume of complaints, all of those things has, you know, has and is expected to lead to improvement across that sector. We’d expect the same in airlines and in airports as well. 

JACQUI FELGATE: Have Australians been ripped off, in particular because we only have two major carriers? 

CATHERINE KING: Well, I think that Australia has a– we have a small market and I think that that is always challenging. We have a small market and we’ve got, obviously, two main players which are important to have, so it’s important to keep that competitive tension between Virgin and Qantas. And, as a regulator, that’s my determination that we do. And obviously, having a lower cost carrier in Jetstar has also been important, as it has been important to have a regional carrier to make sure we have those services, and we’re working our way through that with the administration that Rex is in currently. 

So, I think that’s been important but I think also there is, you know, tension between airports, which in and of themselves are a monopoly. You don’t have a choice as an airline, you can only fly to that one place. That’s why bringing on Western Sydney International Airport in Sydney will really be a game changer for the busiest part of our network, and that will change things as well. So, there’s a lot that happens in this space and I think that, certainly part of what I’m trying to do is make sure that we get a better customer experience, we get better and clearer rights to be able to actually have that experience, and that we get that- we keep that competitive tension between our two major airlines. And obviously, if there is another player that comes in, it is difficult in that smaller market, we always want to make sure that they’ve got availability to come in as well, which is again partly what some of the slots reforms is about, to really open that up and to make sure that new entrants do have some capacity. But it is a challenging space, I think, when you’ve got a pretty small market like Australia. 

JACQUI FELGATE: And what about the Qatar decision as well, would you like to see that reopened up? Because at the time I think that was quite controversial and a lot of people, a lot of Australian travellers, would like to see more slots opening up for big international airlines like Qatar. 

CATHERINE KING: Yeah, and that’s exactly what we have done. There’s been significant decisions I’ve made in terms of Turkish Airlines, that’s really been a game changer, particularly for Melbourne. And they’re attempting– they’re wanting to come into Sydney and I think that’ll be interesting to see what that does in the Sydney market as well. Vietnam Airlines, again, that’s been really important for that South East Asian market. So, there has been a substantial increase in availability for international carriers. 

I have before me – at any one point in time – five or six countries, and these are country-to-country bilateral negotiations. They’re part of our– sort of soft power and soft diplomacy. What the white paper does is it outlines a bit more about why it is that way and what our pursuit is of open skies agreements with countries as well. So, we have actually increased that and we are seeing international flights come down– flight prices come down. We, of course, would like to see more of that, and we’ll continue to have those country-to-country negotiations, regardless of wherever they are from.

JACQUI FELGATE: And when you travel overseas, particularly Europe, you do get the message to say why your flight’s been delayed and therefore you can make a claim for compensation. Would that be something you’d like to see when we talk about reasoning for delayed or cancelled flights? How would it actually work in Australia, in your view?

CATHERINE KING: Yeah. So, what we’ve put in the white paper is that airlines will be required to provide “show cause” information, so they actually need to say why the flight has been cancelled. So again, this comes down to this, you know, is this unreasonable. Like, obviously, I was delayed out of Melbourne last night, there was a massive storm that closed the airport down, now you know that that’s going to cause a delay, and you know, it wasn’t great, but it is there – there’s nothing you could do about that. But really, what we’re asking airlines now to do is report that data much more regularly so we can actually see what’s happening across the entire aviation sector, and to show cause as to why those flights are delayed and explain that so the public is aware of that. And then, if they have a cause for claim, that then they are aware that they have that cause for claim.

JACQUI FELGATE: And Infrastructure Australia, just on the Suburban Rail Loop, I know I’ve spoken to you about this in the past, but they’ve obviously requested more information from the State Government wanting that more detailed business case. Why is the State Government holding back on this information?

CATHERINE KING: Well, I don’t think they are to some extent. I think that what’s- suburban rail, what it does, and it actually sits right square with the agenda that we have to build more homes, suburban rail is actually, when you look at equivalent rail over in Perth with METRONET, you’ve just seen what Metro has done in Sydney, and I think they’ve had a million passengers on this just over the weekend when it’s opened. All of- Like, heavy rail really is– like it is hard. It’s our most expensive infrastructure and it’s hard to get that cost benefit because you’ve got to prove that you’re taking people off roads. So-

JACQUI FELGATE: [Interrupts] But with respect, they are holding back that information, though. I mean, we’ve spoken to Infrastructure Australia at length on this, on and off air on this program, essentially, wanting more information and it not yet being provided.

CATHERINE KING: Yeah. And certainly, that’s what I’ve said really clear to the Victorian Government. We think this is an important project for Victoria. It’s a big– you know, it requires a big investment for that to occur. And really, what I’ve done is reformed the way in which the Commonwealth makes those investment decisions, really getting and engaging Infrastructure Australia. And so, in order for me to make an investment decision about suburban rail, if there’s a request for further funding, is that Infrastructure Australia advice is important to me, and the Victorian Government needs to work with them on that. And I’ve said that pretty consistently [indistinct]….

JACQUI FELGATE: [Talks over] And this project can’t go ahead without federal funding. I know you have given some money already, but for it to continue, it needs more federal funding. So are you expecting that case to be provided by the end of the year?

CATHERINE KING: Well, that’s a matter, again, for the Victorian Government. I know this is a really–

JACQUI FELGATE: [Talks over] Would you like to see it provided by the end of the year?

CATHERINE KING: It’s a really important project for the Victorian Government. I know how important it is for really changing the way Melbourne works and getting more housing and getting public transport around new economic hubs, and that’s really what suburban rail is all about. So, we’ll certainly welcome any information going through Infrastructure Australia for us to make investment decisions going forward.

JACQUI FELGATE: And just my final question. Are you getting tired of talking about the Suburban Rail Loop? I’m sure we’re tired of asking the questions.

CATHERINE KING: Can I– I love rail. I think it’s just–

JACQUI FELGATE: [Interrupts] This one?

CATHERINE KING: It’s like– yeah, well, I think, you know, when the work is done, I think the investment in– again, at the start of all of these projects everyone says, look at the cost, look at this, and of course, you have to examine and investigate all of that. And I’m quite sure Metro, through all of its challenges, had exactly the same things being said. But you look at what happened in Sydney over the weekend. Rail’s pretty good really, it’s great to get more people on it. It provides a terrific opportunity. And when it works, it’s really, really good. So I’m not sick of talking about it. I really quite like rail projects.

JACQUI FELGATE: So is it financially disastrous, though, for the State Government to continue on with this project?

CATHERINE KING: Well, again, I don’t have the– I’m not the Victorian Treasurer and that’s a matter for the Victorian Government. What I do is I have to make decisions about what will the Commonwealth co-invest in with states and territories. Rail is a good investment to make. We’re all trying to get more people onto public transport and really provide that opportunity for people to live around well-located public transport. And that’s what suburban rail is about. And so, those projects are important. And it is important to have that pipeline of big infrastructure projects coming through. And really, it’s a matter for the Victorian Government to work out when and how it’s going to actually build and deliver those. And we’ll work with them. We’ll work with any jurisdiction about that, about how we can co-invest. But we, of course, want to make sure that co-investment decision is made on the best possible information we can have.

JACQUI FELGATE: Catherine King is the Federal Minister for Infrastructure and Transport. Appreciate your time today, Minister.

CATHERINE KING: Really good to be with you. Thank you.