SARAH ABO, HOST: And it is something we thought would never happen, Karlos, finally, Anthony Albanese and Donald Trump have met. There is the selfie to prove it.

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: I guess the kids call it fangirling.

ABO: It feels a little bit like that.

STEFANOVIC: You could almost feel the relief also on Albo's face. It's been 675,000 days in the making, but October 20 is the big day, and Donald Trump and Albo met for I think just a couple of minutes last night in New York ahead of some pretty significant things today as well. To discuss, we're joined by Federal Communications Minister Anika Wells who is there in New York.

Anika, good morning to you. Albo finally got a date with the Don, huh?

MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS ANIKA WELLS: Yes, I saw the photo. I know he was with the President last night at a function that President Trump hosted for world leaders. I myself was at a UN women's event, but that's the nature of High Level Week here at the UN. You do eight, ten twelve things a day.

ABO: He didn't even have a photographer though, Anika, he had to DIY his own press for that photo.

WELLS: I don't know if you've met our Prime Minister but he's fond of a selfie and I have yet to see someone decline one.

STEFANOVIC: Hey, look, you've got some big stuff on today. You’re urging other countries to crack down on children's social media access. How have other world leaders been responding?

WELLS: Well, I think everybody was taken aback by the huge turnout at our event. It was this morning here at the UN. We had the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen. We had the Prime Minister of Greece, Prime Minister of Malta, Prime Ministers of Fiji and Tonga all join us. A number of other ministers and my counterparts from different countries, all very interested and supportive and wanting to know. I mean, they're grateful, I think, that we're the first. But Australia has always led the way on online safety. We were the first to introduce the eSafety Commissioner 10 years ago, and now we're the first to introduce world-leading laws to restrict kids' social media accounts until the age of 16.

ABO: There's obviously been some resistance from the big tech companies, right, who have obviously their own interests at heart here. But Elon Musk is calling for the ban to be delayed. They say you're exposing children to greater harms like privacy breaches. Does he have a point?

WELLS: No, I don't think they do. And some of the other things that I'm doing whilst I'm here is meeting with the tech giants, eyeballing them and answering any questions they have about 10 December and what our expectations are. Because I think these are pioneering, innovating, some of the richest companies in the world. They transact a lot of business and they make a lot of revenue off Australians here on our shore, and I think it’s reasonable to ask them to use some of that tech and some of that revenue to look after our kids online.

STEFANOVIC: So the argument is that we are violating humanitarian rights for these kids. You don't buy that at all? Rights that we've signed up to?

WELLS: None whatsoever. There are a number of international covenants that we are upholding by protecting the rights and wellbeing of children when there is so much evidence in now about particularly the mental harms that are afflicted to children by being exposed to social media too young – too young being before the age of 16.

STEFANOVIC: OK. When will you start legal action against any of those companies who don't comply?

WELLS: That's something that the eSafety Commissioner and I have discussed and will continue to discuss. The law says that we can take action where there is systemic breaches. So at the moment, you know, we issued the rules around these laws in July. Last week, the eSafety Commissioner and I together released the regulatory guidance. The platforms are now going through a self-assessment tool process. We will continue to work with them. And I guess we have some on our radar. Some are more forward-leaning than others, let's say that, Karl, but everybody's got a chance to deliver this for 10 December.

ABO: I mean, you are going to face some resistance, I think, right across the board. So it'll be interesting to see how your talks with those tech giants go. Have you got anything actually penciled in with Elon Musk?

WELLS: I do not, but my door is open.

STEFANOVIC: I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

ABO: Bring the Wiggles along.

STEFANOVIC: OK, back home, and the Optus CEO has put their catastrophic Triple Zero outage down to, quote, human error. Is that your understanding of it?

WELLS: I think that's right. I mean on the face of it, it sounds like Optus has ineffectively implemented what was required of them after the Bean Review. The Bean Review was the full and independent investigation that went on after Optus’ last Triple Zero outage. And the purpose of the Bean Review was designed to make sure this never happened again. So I guess the first question I asked was how on earth has this happened again? And like the CEO has said, human error and failure of Optus to implement what was required.

ABO: And this is the issue, I guess, that there's no confidence in the telco at the moment and it's going to be difficult for them to restore that, as you understand, Minister. So what happens going forward? I mean, they've been hit with that fine, but can they continue to operate?

WELLS: So I delayed my departure for the UN to deal with the Optus crisis across the weekend. I am still in constant contact with people back home. I have been on the phone to the head of the ACMA walking into the UN this morning. We are giving thought both as the independent regulator and the government as to how we can change the settings to be more forward-leaning.

At the moment, this is all reactive, you know, something has to go wrong, telcos have to stuff up and then either the ACMA or government can react to that. What can we do, like you say, Sarah, to give some confidence back to Australians, particularly ahead of disaster season in the summer, that it isn't a reactive scenario, that we are more forward-leaning.

STEFANOVIC: And it's guaranteed. Look, enjoy yourself over there for what's remaining. There's a great restaurant in the meatpacking district called Balthazar. I know the chef, if you want me to line you up a table.

ANIKA WELLS: I had a slice of pizza off a cart on the street at some time last night on my way back … but I might leave Balthazar to you.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Thanks Anika. I’ll see you when you get home.