MATT SHIRVINGTON, CO-HOST: Social media companies could soon face doubled penalties for breaching the under-16s ban. It comes as those same tech giants are accused of doing the bare minimum to comply with Australia’s laws, with up to 80 per cent of teenagers still on the platforms now. The Federal Government is pushing to ramp up their powers and double the penalties to $109 million, but questions are mounting over whether these tougher rules will be enough when it comes to taking on a trillion-dollar tech giant.

For more we’re joined by Communications Minister Anika Wells. Good to have you with us, Minister. So have any of these tech giants so far actually had to pay a penalty yet?

MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS ANIKA WELLS: They haven’t. The eSafety Commissioner has five investigations underway as we speak, and both she and Australian parents needed these laws passed 10 weeks ago. They need the Coalition and the Greens to stop dawdling on this and they need to give the eSafety Commissioner more powers so that she has a stronger ability to go to the Federal Court and fine big tech, who are taking the mickey.

SHIRVINGTON: We’ll talk about the stronger powers in a sec but if you’re just increasing the penalties but none are being handed out, how’s that going to help?

WELLS: This isn’t issuing a speeding fine, Shervo. This is the eSafety Commissioner going to the Federal Court against, like you say, some of the best resourced, richest companies in the world. She needs all of her powers. She asked for them. We should listen to expert advice on this. The Labor Government tried to do that 10 weeks ago. We’ve had the Coalition and the Greens dawdling with the Senate inquiry yet to hand us any amendments to this bill, but we need these laws passed now. We need to give the eSafety Commissioner more powers to go and hold big tech to account.

SHIRVINGTON: So when we’re reading that a Newcastle University study has shown 80 per cent of teenagers are still on social media platforms, it doesn’t seem to be working, does it? These powers, the non-compliance particularly, how is that going to work? Is it going to work?

WELLS: Well, a key difference is that rather than big tech just telling the eSafety Commissioner that they’re doing the right thing, they’re going to have to show her that they are doing the right thing. And we want to be able to ask third parties who do age verification, for example, to be able to give that information to the eSafety Commissioner as well. You’re right, big tech is taking the mickey, and you’re right that we want more Australians off their devices and onto the field and the courts. But this is a cultural change, much like underage drinking. There’s a law that says you can’t drink if you’re under 18. Plenty of people do but it’s about setting a standard and about helping parents have this discussion and feel equipped to have that discussion in their households.

SHIRVINGTON: Let’s talk about changing algorithms as well. You’re pushing for new laws to force social media companies to let users opt out of their algorithms and only see content from people that they follow. Some people are making claims that you’re trying to censor the internet and what people are seeing.

WELLS: This is about giving Australians more choice over what they see in their feed. At the moment, probably Elon Musk is making that choice for you. We want Australians to make that choice. And we want big tech to identify the risks that are on their platforms and mitigate against those risks the same way that every other industry in Australia has to, whether it’s toys, whether it’s food. There are basic safety standards that we expect of every industry selling things to Australians and big tech should be the same.

SHIRVINGTON: Anika Wells, appreciate your time. Thank you.