KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Welcome back to the program. With me now is the Communications Minister, Anika Wells. The week that you're wanting to double the penalties on big tech, what's the message to big tech? And are they cooperating at all? What's the level of their interest in this?

MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS AND SPORT ANIKA WELLS: I think you can say that they are cooperating at an absolute bare minimum, which is producing the kind of results that everybody's talking about. And that's also therefore achieving their objective, which is to cast as much doubt over these laws to try and dissuade other countries from following in our footsteps.

GILBERT: So, when we say 5 million accounts disabled or deactivated, there are others – and this is the point that's been made to me by those critical of the plan – that they're just simply getting on other accounts or just jumping on another way. Is that happening?

WELLS: Yeah. Like I said yesterday, someone told me about a 13-year-old who's opened up a new social media account and wasn't even asked her age - like, that's not complying with the law. So, we would say that the laws aren't failing, they're choosing not to comply with the law. They're failing to comply with the law, so we're going to double the penalty for failing to comply with the law, but we're also going to give the eSafety Commissioner the ability to compel documents, to beef up her ability to take them to court and win.

GILBERT: Well, you need to, don't you? Because they've got unlimited resources.

WELLS: Yeah, they're some of the most resourced, sophisticated companies in the world. These are powerful people that we're going up against, but we do it on behalf of 110,000 parents who signed the petition saying, please act. And what the PM and I wanted to emphasise yesterday is every time they try to obfuscate, every time they try to get around these laws, every time they try to cast doubt on them, we will fight back and we will make the laws stronger. Because we are determined to succeed.

GILBERT: When you talk about the cultural shift, though, in behaviour, that resonates, I think, with a lot of parents - certainly with me - and I've made this case to a lot of people who say, oh, it won't work, it doesn't work. And actually, when you're negotiating with your child that's sometimes harder than international talks.

WELLS: That's how I feel.

GILBERT: You're saying, look, this is not legal now and your friends aren't doing it. And so it builds a gradual cultural shift in standards. That's the point, isn't it?

WELLS: And lots of parents tell me about they have law-abiding children who wouldn't dream of doing that now that it's against the law. In the same way we've got kids who wouldn't dream of drinking before 18 because it's against the law and we've got kids who try it on, get someone else to buy alcohol for them. I mean, cultural change- we talk about the seatbelt change a lot, and when that came in a lot of people didn't- people flouted that law as well - it took a while for that culturally to seep in.

GILBERT: I heard Wayne Holdsworth-sorry to interrupt you- he made that point yesterday, but you want to provide the ballast to that cultural shift by saying to the big tech, you're also going to cop it if you don't help along the way?

WELLS: Yeah. And to parents to say, you don't have to be the bad guy here. The government has made the law, you can point to the law and, ultimately, it's not up to you to enforce this. It's up to big tech to enforce this. For them to respect domestic law - which they all say in public that's what they're here to do - they need to uphold this, not parents.

GILBERT: On the telco change today, you've announced uniform standards in terms of coverage. How does that work for the telcos?

WELLS: For coverage mapping. I think a lot of your viewers, particularly those in regions and rural areas, would have experienced difficulty with coverage maps that telcos provide. Can't rely on them or they're not consistent. So I issued a direction to ACMA, who's our regulator, to beef up transparency and accountability around coverage maps. So that kicks in as of today.

It also means it's an industry standard now. So if any of those telcos do the wrong thing, imply there's coverage where there actually isn't - where people experience on the ground that there isn't, there's going to be the ability to investigate that, enforce that, penalise that.

GILBERT: And is there any progress in terms of where there are fires and crises that telcos will provide their service to others free of charge, that that would just become an expectation? Is that happening?

WELLS: That's called camp-on arrangements. So that's something that obviously is a real flashpoint for us when Triple Zero goes down. And in areas where there's multiple telcos, there is an ability to provide camp-on arrangements. And we want to see that improve constantly, and so do telcos to be honest. It's where there's only one provider in an area and that goes down that you need to know with a coverage map that that's the case - that you've only got one option and you've got to have something else in place.

GILBERT: On a couple of other matters out of your area, but auction clearance rates. Obviously, it's something that Australians in the capital cities, we watch closely whether you're in the market or wanting to get in the market. They're down on what they were a year ago. Is this what the Government wanted, to take a bit of heat out? Are you seeing what you'd hoped would happen to get first homebuyers in? Is that the sort of level of correction you wanted?

WELLS: Well, I think what we want is to get first homebuyers into their first home and then, anecdotally on the ground, we're hearing that's what's happening. We've got people calling, emailing the office to say, I've finally gotten in. And I had mobile offices - In Brisbane two Fridays ago - nobody was coming to my mobile office to say, I'm worried about house prices, I'm worried about clearance rates. They'll come in and say, my son and his partner are finally getting to auctions and having a chance, and we appreciate it. That's the end goal, getting more first homebuyers into homes.

GILBERT: And negative equity, is that a worry for, say, those that might have got in with a five per cent deposit and that sort of thing?

WELLS: I've seen some reports around that, and obviously the Opposition sought to make a point of that at Question Time yesterday. Not any kind of feedback that's coming in from actual constituents. And Treasury modelling says that house prices are still going to rise, just more sustainably as we move forward.

GILBERT: And big news in the World Cup today. Germany's out. Australia's still in.

WELLS: Huge. Huge.

GILBERT: Are you first of all, hopeful Australia versus Egypt and we're all hoping they get up? If they get up, would you be thinking to go to the later rounds, Round of 16 or whatever?

WELLS: Wouldn't we all love to? I suspect the Prime Minister would have dibs in the case that we got through and needed to send a member of the Government over - that's his right to have first option there. I'll be watching at home at 4am Saturday morning. Where will you be? Be here or at home?

GILBERT: At home, yeah.

WELLS: And I think it'll be pretty competitive. We're pretty evenly ranked with Egypt, maybe their captain's injured. And our guys, I don't know about you, but our office has been enjoying speculating what Popovic is going to do with the line-up each game. It's been hard to pick.

GILBERT: And as Sports Minister, you haven't been yet. How come you haven't gone?

WELLS: I don't make it to a lot of major events- to a lot of major sporting events. And as a general rule, I don't miss Parliament to hit major sporting events. And last week I introduced sport legislation. We had the Major Events, Images and Indicia legislation that I put through the Parliament. Yesterday, we introduced the social media minimum age. I've got gambling to introduce later this week as well. So I'm busy here. And as Comms Minister, it’s good to see what free-to-air is offering, what SBS - who I also look after as the Comms Minister - is providing by way of coverage. So, it's always a balancing act.

GILBERT: So, yeah, you weren't spooked by the recent dramas over the travel expenses? That's not why you haven't gone?

WELLS: No. Like I said, there's lots of major events I don't get to, and I'm sure my stakeholders would prefer it if I was there. But it's just the case. We're always finely balancing all of my responsibilities.

GILBERT: Okay. All right. Well, we'll see how they go on the weekend. Good luck to the Socceroos. Thank you for being with us. Appreciate it.

WELLS: Pleasure.