SALLY SARA, HOST: With the federal Budget just a week away now, the Federal Government is finalising all of the details. The Finance Minister Katy Gallagher says there will be, quote, savings and reprioritisations in every portfolio. Anika Wells is the Federal Minister for Communications and joins me now. Minister, welcome back to Breakfast.

MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS ANIKA WELLS: Great to be with you.

SARA: Before we get to your portfolio, the Prime Minister and Treasurer have now stated pretty directly there will be tax changes targeting intergenerational fairness in the budget. Labor last tried those things at the 2019 election when you were a new candidate. Labor lost that election. Do you think the political conditions for tax reform have shifted in the past seven years?

WELLS: I'm doing a lot of door-knocking at the moment. I do think that the conversations that we have on doorsteps with people about their worries weren't necessarily borne out in the particular electoral results in particular seats in the 2019 federal election. Something I experienced as a candidate, like you said, were parents and grandparents worrying that their kids would never be able to afford a home. Their kids might still be living with them years or even decades after they'd all anticipated that to be true. People want that to change. And housing affordability, I think you're right, in the past seven years has become a crisper issue for everybody. And I certainly know that people talk to me in my electorate about wanting to see more action on that front.

SARA: Why did the government not seek a mandate on this at the previous election if it's such an important issue and it's been brewing over the past seven years?

WELLS: Well, I'll pick you up there. I appreciate your summation of their comments, but our tax policies haven't changed and we all don't have long to wait until the Budget next Tuesday night. And, like you say, we are still steadily working away on the federal budget in a pretty dynamic international environment.

SARA: But these changes are coming.

WELLS: The PM and the Treasurer haven't said that. They've said that their tax policies have changed. I think we all accept, and like I'm saying to you, there is a huge amount of discourse in the country about housing affordability, about the questions of intergenerational inequality. Like you say, people like myself came to Parliament on that. We've always been steadily working on it and we're attuned to what people want to see.

SARA: So work's been going on this for quite some time. If it is a long-standing issue, why didn't Labor go to the election with these kinds of proposals?

WELLS: We went to the election with a really significant suite of housing reforms and housing initiatives. And I know that you've spoken to my colleague, Clare O'Neil, our Minister for Housing, about those previously. I think those are big initiatives and measures that sought address what Australians wanted to see in their federal government, but we're always attuned. I'll be door-knocking later this week, I was door-knocking last week. We're always attuned to the nature of what people want to see as priorities as they themselves respond to what's happening to us all internationally.

SARA: Let's talk about the social media ban. It's almost five months since the law was designed to keep kids under 16 off social media came into force. We've heard some parents are frustrated that their kids are still able to access these social media platforms. What's your message to those parents?

WELLS: So are we, so am I. And I've had so many conversations with those same parents across the summer who are really helpful in giving me all the different workarounds that people are finding to get around the ban. But ultimately, this isn't a question for Australian parents to solve on their own or in their own households. This is on big tech. And I think it's a fairly basic and reasonable expectation that Australians can have that, if big tech wants to operate in our country, on our shores, they respect our domestic laws.

SARA: Last month, the eSafety Commissioner sent transparency notices to online computer gaming platforms like Roblox, Minecraft, Fortnite and Steam to explain how they're keeping children safe online. Julie Inman Grant described these platforms as, quote, hunting grounds. Let's take a listen.

[Excerpt]

JULIE INMAN GRANT: Gaming platforms and messaging platforms were specifically exempted, which is why we had to do assessments. That is something that can still be done now. I think the real rationale behind that was that the government didn't want to totally cut off their digital lifelines. Social media, where we see the vast majority of deceptive and harmful design features, was the focus area. This will give us more evidence about where the real harms lie and clearly there could be changes over time.

[End of excerpt]

SARA: But would you consider including these platforms under the social media ban?

WELLS: Well, Julie's right there, the hint's in the name. It's the social media minimum age ban that we brought in, and it was designed to try and address the online harms Australian kids are suffering and particularly those functions and features that we've narrowed in on, like the toxic popularity meters and the infinite scroll and the disappearing messages. So, it’s for that reason, that we formed the laws that we did.

But like you say, Sally, if a gaming platform was to exhibit those features and functions that would cause it to become primarily more like a social media platform, we would absolutely reconsider that. And that's why I met with the CEO and founder of Roblox. He came to Australia. We put them on notice about that and also about the fact that just because they're not captured by the social media minimum age laws doesn't mean they don't have obligations to Australians under our Online Safety Act. And I'm also busy working on our digital duty of care, which I'm hoping to legislate in the second half of this year, which will apply to gaming platforms as well.

SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Minister for Communications, Anika Wells. Minister, we've heard from the AMA this morning, which is concerned about the tobacco giant Philip Morris being given permission to give evidence to a parliamentary inquiry into illegal tobacco, to give that evidence behind closed doors yesterday. Do you share the AMA's concerns about that?

WELLS: Yeah, and it's on the Coalition to account for themselves here. We all know that the Coalition takes money from big tobacco, and I know that Senator Jana Stewart, who's the Labor Senator on the committee, alongside other senators, objected to that evidence being provided In camera and it is absolutely upon the Coalition senators who made their decisions to account for those decisions.

SARA: Staying with public health issues, let's turn to gambling reform. The Prime Minister announced last month. He described it as, quote, the most significant reform on gambling that has ever been implemented. Are you planning to introduce the proposed changes to Parliament when it resumes next week?

WELLS: We will table the Government's response to the committee at our first opportunity, which is when Parliament resumes on Tuesday next week and because of the nature of House committee procedure I'm not able to table it until Parliament resumes. So that government response will be published on Tuesday and then yeah, shortly thereafter, we will be seeking to introduce legislation to the House and importantly for people who care about this issue, our consultation on that gambling advertising legislation began yesterday.

SARA: You've rejected the recommendation from the late Labor Senator Peta Murphy's committee to ban all TV advertising for gambling while suspending the Commercial Broadcasting Tax for another two years. Why are you giving the TV networks a free ride?

WELLS: Well, the free-to-air broadcasters are experiencing significant financial change at the moment and their request to government was a two-year suspension of the Commercial Broadcasting Tax. We have granted that because, in another area of the Comms portfolio, I manage our spectrum, which is our national resource, and we need to make that fit for purpose for the future. You might have seen that we're engaging with the telcos on that question as well. Our free-to-air broadcasters use part of that spectrum. We've been talking to them about how they can give that back to us so that we can use it and set up Australia's communications so that it is fit for purpose and we think that the two-year suspension allows us to continue to do that work with them.

SARA: Separately, you haven't acted on Peta Murphy's recommendation of bringing in a national regulator. This is when it comes to national online gambling regulator. Does that mean that you think the Northern Territory Racing and Wagering Commission is fit for purpose?

WELLS: No, it means I think that the Northern Territory, alongside all our states and territories, has a really important role to play in raising their regulatory standards to reduce the harm caused by gambling. And there will be really strong oversight to ensure that these changes are complied with.

SARA: So what does that mean? This regulator in the Northern Territory has no full-time staff and six of the past 10 commissioners have owned or part-owned racehorses. Is that an appropriate regulator for Australia's biggest online bookmakers with a combined annual turnover of around $50 billion?

WELLS: Well, the Northern Territory, based on this evidence, which I know the ABC has covered in a few different mediums, has questions to answer and has a role to play. And they should raise their regulatory standards so that we can all reduce the harm caused by gambling. I know sometimes people ask me, why has this taken so long? And part of it is because it's complex and it touches lots of different jurisdictions and it has sort of lots of intersectional policy elements. But we are all beholden to do more and that absolutely includes the Northern Territory to raise its regulatory standards.

SARA: So what's the timetable for raising those regulatory standards?

WELLS: Well the Northern Territory will need to. And like I said, consultation opened yesterday about our federal legislation but there are different forums that both the federal and state governments use where we need to work together on different intersectional policy reforms and we will expect those working groups and forums to convene and to develop this policy. I mean, they always have the opportunity to do this. We should all be working on this, but I guess now that the Government is tabling its response to the committee report, and we're doing that next Tuesday, there really is no excuse any further hesitation.

SARA: Anika Wells thank you so much for joining me this morning. 

WELLS: Have a good morning. 

SARA: Anika Wells is the Minister for Communications and Sport.