MELISSA CLARKE, HOST: The tech giants are on notice again with the Federal Government announcing tougher penalties in a bid to strengthen its under-16 social media ban it introduced around six months ago. The government is seeking to double penalties to $99 million for tech companies that breach the ban, while bolstering the eSafety Commissioner’s powers. Countries like the UK are watching these developments closely as they attempt to follow Australia’s lead.

Anika Wells is the Minister for Communications and the Minister for Sport. Minister, welcome to Radio National Breakfast.

MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS ANIKA WELLS: Thanks Mel. Good to be with you.

CLARKE: Is this change, the toughening of the penalties, is this an admission that the details of this social media ban weren't right in the first place?

WELLS: No, we've consistently said that our social media minimum age law is a world first. It's going to need to be flexible and adaptable. And it's actually about having the backs of parents and their kids, that's what this has always been about. And I've always said for the year that I've been the Communications Minister, that I'm happy to make improvements to the law where we see it. I already changed the rules last year around YouTube. These changes ensure that the eSafety Commissioner has the tools and powers it needs to hold platforms to account. And we're making sure that she can do just that.

CLARKE: She said earlier this month that the legislation was drafted very quickly and didn't give her sufficient powers. Was the government not listening closely enough to her during the drafting of these bills in the first place?

WELLS: You're right that the 31 March compliance update was important in this process. We've been methodical about it, but that's when Julie Inman Grant outlined serious compliance concerns. You'll remember I did a Blue Room press conference about that. I said these companies are taking the mickey. We gave them the opportunity to remedy. You know, I get monthly reports from the eSafety Commissioner. In the two monthly reports I've had since then, we are not seeing improvements. So now we are acting to bulk up her powers.

CLARKE: Yeah, that interim report, it found around 70 per cent of kids who had a social media account before the ban still have accounts. So is that a failure? Is that 70 per cent rate- does that mean the scheme isn't working in your view right now?

WELLS: I think we can all agree we would like the scheme to work better than it is currently, but that is on big tech taking the mickey. And I think, like I've said before, there are two pieces to this. There are the actual enforcement mechanisms that we need to do now. That's what we are beefing up this week in the Parliament with more powers for the eSafety Commissioner and doubling the fine for big tech. But then there's also the broader cultural-change piece. And much like when seatbelts became mandatory in cars, it took a while for people to observe that law. And this is about the five-year-olds, the nine-year-olds who will never have a social media account until 16, that change will take a while to seep through.

CLARKE: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast where the Minister for Communications, Anika Wells, is my guest. Minister, you're also introducing legislation to limit gambling advertising to Parliament this week. There's been some targeted consultation with stakeholders. Are there any changes to the draft laws that you're making after that consultation?

WELLS: There are some revisions after the exposure draft and the consultation process, and I'll continue to work with stakeholders and parliamentarians on these reforms. In social policy, the pen is never down, but this is a big and meaningful reform package. I want to see it legislated as quickly as we can because the Prime Minister announced at the National Press Club this reform package and said the implementation date would be 1 January and we need to stick to that.

CLARKE: What are those changes that you're making after the consultation?

WELLS: We will introduce the legislation this week in the Parliament, as you say, and the differences between the exposure draft and the legislation will be evident, but they're minor. There's nothing that is particularly substantive that will alter people's views of the legislation, given that these are very deeply entrenched views from all sides on this particular issue.

CLARKE: Yeah, there was certainly some very strong evidence given in those hearings from stakeholders pushing for significant changes, but none of those will be in the changes that you're making.

WELLS: No, these are minor revisions.

CLARKE: All right, moving on to a few other issues, because there's a bit to get through this morning. Four Corners is reporting tonight on the number of Australian Rules footballers who have died with degenerative brain disease that has really rocked US professional sports, that it's far higher than previously thought. How concerned are you as Sports Minister for what the implications might mean for athletes here in Australia?

WELLS: I mean, chronic traumatic encephalopathy is a priority of the Albanese Government. We committed $12.5 million in the previous budget to help research and prevent CTE. It's linked with Dementia Australia, they're running the project for us. And when I was the aged care and sport minister, it was a particular intersectional interest of mine to try and do this work. So we're going to continue to work with the Australian Sport Commission who leads this for us on concussion and how that affects all sports and repeated head trauma in sport. And we've got to do more on the research front, and it's important work and I'll continue to do it.

CLARKE: The Federal Government has been trying to intervene with corruption that we've seen on big-build sites in Victoria, having stepped in to push the CFMEU into administration. But Nine newspapers are reporting that there is still money continuing to flow through to underworld figures on Victorian building sites. Should the federal government be looking at stopping funding to any of these projects until it's all sorted out?

WELLS: Look, I will defer to my colleague Amanda Rishworth on the ins and outs of that because I'm not speaking to you now, Mel, across how the federal government might do that. And I'm aware that this is in the mix federally this week because we are working on the Cooperative Workplaces Bill. But I think we will always take the position that enterprise agreements should be transparent and effective. They should deliver secure jobs and fair conditions and the federal government will always do what we can to support those.

CLARKE: All right. We'll continue to ask questions about that one. But just going back to having your sports minister cap on, we've obviously got the Australian men's soccer team heading into the knockoff rounds of the World Cup. They’re up against Egypt in Dallas next Saturday. Are you going to be going along to this knockout round or any future rounds if the Socceroos manage to progress through to further stages?

WELLS: Regretfully, we're here until Thursday night with Parliament, and the game’s at 4am Saturday morning. So I'll be watching on the TV, and like I've said before, sometimes I’m the Minister for Sport and it's important I'm at major events because there's all kinds of elements and stakeholders that are there for me to be there in person. Sometimes I’m the Minister for Communications, and I need to see what that experience is like for Australians watching that on free-to-air with regard to our anti-syphoning legislation, reforms, et cetera. So this one, I'll be watching on TV.

CLARKE: And if the Socceroos manage to make it all the way through, would that be worth the trip over?

WELLS: Look, that is a question for the Prime Minister, who I suspect would have dibs.

CLARKE: All right, we'll press him if we're lucky enough to get to that stage. Anika Wells thanks very much for speaking to Radio National Breakfast.

WELLS: Thanks.

CLARKE: And Anika Wells is the Minister for Communications and the Minister for Sport.