JAMES GLENDAY, HOST: Australia’s under-16 social media ban takes effect in just over a month in early December, of course. Here is the list. We already knew several of the platforms that will need to adhere to the new age restrictions. Now two others, Reddit and Kik, have also been added to the list. And the Communications Minister Anika Wells joins us now with more.

Minister, welcome back to the program.

MINISTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS ANIKA WELLS: Morning James.

GLENDAY: So why have you added these extra two platforms?

WELLS: We want to give parents and teachers, caregivers clarity as we run into 10 December about what is in and out so that they can have discussions whether it’s around the dinner table, whether it’s driving their kids to school about what that’s going to look like for young people. Obviously, we have the owners on the platforms here. It’s up for the platforms to find and deactivate these accounts come 10 December. But nonetheless, these are going to be big changes in young people’s lives and we want people to be prepared for it.

GLENDAY: Yeah, it’s certainly going to be an adjustment for a lot of people who are using these accounts already under the age of 16. Are you expecting more platforms to be added over the next few weeks, or is this the final list before these laws come into effect?

WELLS: These are definitely not set and forget laws, and with respect to the list I know for example Twitch is still currently being assessed by the eSafety Commissioner so there will still be room for movement as we move into 10 December. But basically, I just want to give everybody as much clarity as I can, as quickly as I can, so that everyone feels prepared for these laws. Because whilst there is huge support for these laws across Australia, something like 79 per cent support when they came into place at the end of last year, obviously, when your young person loses something that they’re used to having every single day, you want to be prepared for it. And that’s why we’ve also got tools, a discussion guide and other things, resources that parents and caregivers might appreciate on the eSafety website, which is eSafety.gov.au.

GLENDAY: Yes, it’s going to be a big adjustment, particularly heading into the summer school holidays for anyone who’s going to be dealing with a teenager through that.

Just to another topic, Minister, there is a Senate inquiry into the Optus Triple Zero outage. Are you going to appear before it?

WELLS: No, the Senate isn’t a place for House ministers and to date have answered, I think, it’s 72 questions either in Question Time in the House of Representatives or at press conferences. I’m happy to make it a 73rd if you’ve got another one for me James, but I’m absolutely available to take questions about my role and what I want to do to hold Optus to account.

GLENDAY: I’m sure you’ll get some more questions through Question Time as well.

WELLS: Undoubtedly.

JAMES GLENDAY: Optus did concede on Monday there was this seven-hour gap between finding out that people had died during this outage and your office being informed. What was Optus doing during those seven hours? Do you know why it took them so long?

WELLS: I have been completely unsatisfied with their answers on that question to date, and I would say that we’ve been asking that for six weeks because a lot of the information that came to light, actually came to light six weeks ago, particularly when ACMA, the regulator, Nerida and I, did a press conference or a couple of press conferences in the days after the Optus outages.

That is why I am looking forward to the review being conducted by Kerry Schott that is only weeks away, we are told, that is getting to the bottom of the ins and outs of what happened inside Optus. It was almost cathartic on Monday for everybody else to be as outraged as we were when we found out that this had all happened, and that the first we heard about it was hours and hours after the outage had been identified, rectified and such egregious harms had come to light.

GLENDAY: What were they doing, though? Were they working on a PR plan? Were they trying to save reputation? I mean, do you have any insight into what was actually happening during that vital period? I mean, the South Australian Premier had to call up Optus to find out what was going on.

WELLS: And I spoke to him several times across that weekend as we each sought to get to the bottom of it ourselves because the answers were not forthcoming from Optus. Optus has tabled a timeline into that inquiry, so some of the answers you’re seeking are in there. For example, they conducted a board meeting on Friday ahead of letting either the regulator or my office know. And that is for them to account for, but also, I think, for Kerry Schott, who is reviewing all of that, to provide recommendations to Optus about how they must improve and for Optus to follow that.

GLENDAY: You will have seen, no doubt, the boss of ASIO come out and say that there are at least three countries with the means and willingness to carry out assassinations, potentially, in Australia. What countries are they?

WELLS: Look, I don’t have the information that Mr Burgess has, although I am comforted at the fact that he has that information, identified the risks, and he and his organisation are working on it to protect Australians. And that is his role, to release information in a careful way when he thinks it is useful to do so. That is what he has done, and I’m not going to add to that this morning.

GLENDAY: Why say three countries, then, and talk about this if you don’t then follow through with which ones? Because immediately there’s speculation about who is likely and willing to do this this sort of thing.

WELLS: Very much a question for Mr Burgess. I think we can trust our organisations, raise these things because it is in our interests to do so, and he has spoken to that, I think, in the evening. I didn’t see it myself, I was working on something else last night. I’m grateful that they are working hard to protect Australians and to mitigate these risks that clearly have been identified.

GLENDAY: I’m sure there’ll be a variety of views around that. I want to take you back to your portfolio, just to something that’s come up in the past few days. Three years ago, Labor frontbenchers Katy Gallagher and Michelle Rowland demanded that Australia Post explain how its millions of dollars in bonuses to executives ended up aligning with community expectations. The annual report of Australia Post is out. Senior executives to continue to get big bonuses. Several executives are paid about $1.6 million. Is this good value for taxpayer money?

WELLS: No, I don’t think so, and that’s why I called the chair of AusPost when I read that report that was due to be tabled in the House of Representatives, and I do have the chair coming to see me in my office here in Parliament later today.

GLENDAY: Right, Ok. So, is it just the salaries are too high, the bonuses are too high?

WELLS: Possibly both. I mean, ultimately, it is not, unfortunately, within my remit to set as the minister because of the legal nature of AusPost, it is for the chair and the board to do that. I guess my question would be, why have the KPIs been set in a way that these bonuses are so readily available and voluminous in nature? But these are discussions I will continue to have with the chair of AusPost because, like I think you are insinuating, James, I do not think they meet community expectations.

GLENDAY: Well, they’re huge growth in salaries and also bonuses as well. That’s all we have time for, sadly. Communications Minister Anika Wells, thank you.